Thread: Chainsaws and Poona Trees.

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Sorry, I meant what do you call honing the saw chain? I have never heard of anyone honing a chain because of the way the chain teeth are made. It is not the steel of the tooth that provides the sharpness, it is a coating of hard chrome on the cutting edges. The top and side of the tooth. When you file or grind this chrome is chipped leaving a fine jagged edge. It is when this very sharp edge is gone that the chain needs sharpening. It is also how you tell if you have sharpened it enough. Run your finger along the top of the tooth, towards the rear of the tooth very lightly and you will feel the serrated edge grab at your skin. This is what I have been taught anyway.

I agree Dean. Unless chainsaw racing, where it's all over in seconds, it pointless to do anything beyond sharpening with a file or grinder. Chainsawing is NOT a fine slicing activity where there are significant benefits of using a honed edge. Instead its violent puncturing/ tearing action. Any superfine edge created on the hard chrome edge or steel is destroyed in first few seconds of a cut. In chainsaw milling where its all end grain cutting so it's really hard on cutters, starting the cut on the end of a semi-dry or dry log that may have some dirt embedded in it can blunt the chain in the first few cm of cut. When face with this I dock 6" off the end and it makes a big difference in the chain lasting the fun distance of a wide cut.

"Little but often" was my old mans motto.
The way he taught me was "forget the feel", instead look for "glints" along the edge of the cutter. If you can see a glint it's the steel underneath the chrome or there's a bit bit of chrome plating busted off and more filing is needed. This is a doubly good method because you can do this without stopping the sharpening process. A good pair of head magnifiers helps.

Originally Posted by BobL

"Little but often" was my old mans motto.
The way he taught me was "forget the feel", instead look for "glints" along the edge of the cutter. If you can see a glint it's the steel underneath the chrome or there's a bit bit of chrome plating busted off and more filing is needed. This is a doubly good method because you can do this without stopping the sharpening process. A good pair of head magnifiers helps.

Hmm. I know what you mean by the glint. I touched a bit of weld mesh with the little saw on Monday. Just scratched the surface of it. When I went to sharpen the chain I could see glints. I got out a loupe and I could see the tiny ragged bits where the chrome had chipped off.

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A bit more wood on the ground now. That is all I am going to cut off this log I think. I am now onto the splitting.

The splitter I had to go and try to start this morning was interesting. I will start a new thread about it. I did get it started. Dirty plug.

Dean

When I said 'root-shooting' I didn't mean that if you cut it, it shoots again from the roots.

Yes, but I think it is the same mechanism that allows this to happen. Coppice is a term used to describe this ability. None of the wattles around here are capable of it. Poplars however are very good at it, over very long distances. Robinia trees are also very good at it.

Dean

This is how I sharpen the saw.

On the bench locked in a vice I do 3 forward strokes with the 4.85mm. (0.375 chain)

I can usually tell by the friction if a tooth needs more than that. If so I examine that tooth and fix it. If this means taking that tooth back too far, then I sharpen it as best I can (without reducing it) and leave it, because I don't want it shorter than the others by more than a few flyshits. This doesn't happen often so it's no big deal.

Then I hone the chain with a 4.5mm file. One solid-soft stroke and backed-off to feather stroke by the fourth stroke.

Every 3-4 times it's in the vice I measure the teeth for length and the height of the lead-in-posts.

When I'm in the forest and I know the saw is going well but falling short of peak revs then I hone the chain. This can happen a few times in the day. This only takes minutes and it's always time for a coffee and a fag. This usually works and I can feel the difference.

I suppose if you're using many saws and interchanging different size saws in your every day then maybe you don't notice the difference. And maybe it's not enough to matter anyway. But this is the only saw I've ever owned. It's seven years old. We're familiar. We started work together on the same day. I can tell when the little bastard's got a hangover and doesn't want to work.

This is where I measure the diameter of the files. I'm not sure if this is correct.

4.85mm

M1.jpg

4.5mm

M2.jpg

Greg

PS: The only timber I have ever cut is narrow leafed ironbark, long dead. And quite often has spent years laying on the ground. (Termites never touch ironbark around here) Different timbers may behave differently?

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

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A bit more wood on the ground now. That is all I am going to cut off this log I think. I am now onto the splitting.
Dean

If that's a Manna Gum then the timber looks (on the cross cuts) a lot like ironbark when it's still a bit green. Does it burn as well as ironbark?

Greg

If that's a Manna Gum then the timber looks (on the cross cuts) a lot like ironbark when it's still a bit green. Does it burn as well as ironbark?

At a guess given my limited knowledge of ironbark (Thanks Henry Lawson) No. Termites and other insects and grubs do attack manna gum because it is not as hard as redgum and obviously ironbark. Manna is perfectly adequate for burning, but my preference of course is redgum. I have a number of bits of it around and I plan on starting to cut some of it up soon. This includes posts and house stumps which are probably 50 - 60 years old, some biggish pieces from roadworks clearing which are old and hopefully dry and some logs dumped over my fence by a neighbour before he sold his property to Timbercorp. They are down the far paddock and need to be cut before it get too much later as there will be a swamp to negotiate if we get a normal winter.

Termites will attack redgum, but it has to be so old first that it is probably not worth using anyway.

I have only filed the lead-in-posts (raker or depth gauge) once. Total disaster. Never touched them again. They wear as the teeth are shortened. Maybe I should have a look at them again tho. Never hurts to check. When you are cutting the best and easiest way to check for sharpness and general cutting action is to look at the chips. You should have good size chips and little dust. This is why I think I should check my rakers as I noticed today the chips were not as good as they could be.

This is where I measure the diameter of the files. I'm not sure if this is correct.

I would guess so. I don't recall ever measuring one. I haven't used them for sharpening a saw for a couple of years, but I used to buy them in packs with the size on the pack and I could tell just by looking at individual files. I guess the one you have is 3/16" or 4.8mm.

I also have to look at tuning my big saw as it is not running quite right.

I have split most of the wood now. There have been many holdups since I started cutting last week. I only seem to get an hour or 2 of actual work each day. Today I waited until the petrol ran out on the splitter so I could replace the fuel hose as it was leaking at the carby. The hose was split and perished so it probably was that leaking. The hose connector is plastic and has been replaced not long ago. I think I cracked it when I removed the hose as it took a bit to work it off the fitting. Pretty sure it was not cracked before. Leaked worse than before, but still not too serious. I rang the local (55km away) mob who do Briggs and Stratton. They wanted a model number. I can't see one. Stamped into the flywheel cover. I searched really carefully, but no luck. Back on the phone and got passed to the mechanic. OHC? look on the valve cover. Nothing. Kept looking for a stamped tag somewhere and found some numbers on a steel plate covering the top and down the back of the engine. Can't read them for dirt and rust spots. Wire brush and texta showed them up, when I put my glasses on. I had to move the ute and trailer to get in to look. Part of the number looked like a model number, maybe. The booklet had a list of about 30 models on the front. One was. I have to go to town Tuesday. I will take the part in to check for the right one and make sure I have the right model number. It has been like this since Saturday week ago. I wasted about half an hour looking for the tailgate for the trailer today.

Dean

I have never liked Briggs and Stratton. You can buy very cheap chinese engines that, in my opinion, are much better engineered. I didn't even know B&S were still in business.

Ironbark burns hot and long ... I prize the root system of a dead tree. If you can cut it, or split it, it probably would outperform coal. Even a branch knot is super-dense. Sometimes I've driven the block splitter into a root ball 30-40 times, puffing like an old steam train, and each blow cursing myself for wasted effort .. but you're forever tempted onwards as you watch the split widen tiny bit by tiny bit. Just one more hit, just one more ....

But when you get a good burl split open it's pure pleasure putting the splits in the fire. They'll glow all night.

Apart from rootballs and knots, dead-dry-ironbark is really easy to split. It's just begging you to tap it so it can fly apart. A mechanical splitter would be overkill.

That was one crazy splitter you posted in the other thread.

Greg

I have never liked Briggs and Stratton. You can buy very cheap chinese engines that, in my opinion, are much better engineered. I didn't even know B&S were still in business.

Yes well I don't think they were quite as available when I bought this one. It was bought locally at sale price. I don't know whether the Chinese engines are actually better engineered. B&S and Honda motors are made in China now and the Chinese cheapies are just copies of them. I have had a problem with my ride on mower starter motor. It has a Chinese 11hp vertical motor in it. I fitted this motor when the original wore out. The starter motor brushes are worn to nothing. I have made a number of enquiries to various businesses. The place I bought it from (Adelaide) said it would be a copy of a Honda or B&S, but I haven't heard back from them. Another place had a 15hp horizontal motor on the floor and the starter motor looked identical to mine. He looked up the part and quoted $190 for the motor. No hope of just brushes. He could not say for certain it would be the right one due to the sprocket tooth number may be different, but it should be. They don't make 11hp anymore. Another of numerous searches on EBay located a starter motor which was listed to be for 11 and 13hp motors and listed dimensions, and the sprocket tooth number. Less than $60. It was actually listed as an after market Honda starter motor also fitting the Chinese ones. It is from an EBay store that I intend to consider for future chainsaw chains and bars etc. "Jono & Jonno".

This motor has been pretty good, but when I first got it the flywheel sat too low on the crank and damaged the coil along with clunking. I finally got replacement parts and fitted them myself.

The B&S has performed perfectly. This plastic connector is the only thing that has gone wrong with it. 12 months sitting around doing nothing, a couple of pulls and off it goes. If I bought another motor now I would get a cheap import tho.

But when you get a good burl split open it's pure pleasure putting the splits in the fire.

Holy heck. A burl? In the fire? Don't let the woodworking guys hear that! You will be burnt at the stake.

Apart from rootballs and knots, dead-dry-ironbark is really easy to split.

The manna would probably not be worth splitting by hand. It is very stringy, but it is green. Down 6 months or so. I split everything. Forks and all and there are a lot of those.

Redgum varies from similar to the manna to "It's just begging you to tap it so it can fly apart." However it is a lot harder than manna. I have hit redgum as hard as I can and had the splitter bounce back up like a tennis ball, leaving barely a mark.

That was one crazy splitter you posted in the other thread.

Yes. I hope it proves to be more reliable than it looks because guess who will have to get it sorted if anything goes wrong? Hubby got the flick, about 30 years too late in my opinion and he left this behind so his little Irish exwife can split the wood that he has never done for her. He cuts wood to sell and would almost never have wood to heat the house. If he did get wood it was green. "Nothing wrong with burning green wood" he told us when we complained about this with a load he got us for some reason. Nothing wrong with burning dead wood either. Guess where the dead wood is? He is short, fat and wears very daggy track pants.

Dean

I mentioned videos of stupid and incredible things done with chainsaws. Here is one to have a look at. It is a bit over 5 mins and is a mix of interesting stuff. Take a look at cutting a tree down from about 4:48. Fascinating growth of a flower just before that too.

Cheers

Dean

I think you forgot the link?

Everybody is in such a hurry. Whats the rush.

Oops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP_zSp0tXBk

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Everybody is in such a hurry. Whats the rush.

I agree, it's funny how folks seem to forget about , easy, simple, safe, comfortable and fun!

Originally Posted by BobL

I agree, it's funny how folks seem to forget about , easy, simple, safe, comfortable and fun!

Ah, the KISS principal. Also forgetting to add the promised link!

My excuse is that I leave the link til later because I have not been able to work out how to go back to normal text. Everything I type after a link comes up in link formatting. Then there is the problem of memory!

Back to grinding the rakers on my saw chain, after I make the coffee I came in to get.

Dean

The icon in the top left of the reply panel (a/A) flips your screen between 'what you see is what you get' and displays the HTML code underneath.

After you paste your link (doesn't matter how you do this) flip to the HTML screen. (Click the icon) Place your cursor after the last closing square bracket, usually looking like this '[/url]' or like thus '[/URL]'

Japanese Kitchen Knife Types And Styles

Now type from there. Your following text won't be connected to the link.

Flip back to your wysiwyg screen ... and there ya go.

Thanks. Easy when you know how. Been thinking about asking about this for a couple of years now. No rush tho.

Dean