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  1. #91
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    Jul 2016
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    Or just grab a bigger heavier flywheel out of an older engine, you are near some good wreckers like hearveys down there.

  2. #92
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    Aug 2011
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    Yea a stock flywheel from a similar make/model would be the go but being a 1983 model, S/H parts are becoming light on.

    A flywheel from a different make/model would be hit/miss in terms of compatibility since the bolt pattern and ring gear would need to be the same.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #93
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    If you know what it is out of try asking on an automotive type forum, you might end up getting it for free or at least very little. toymods.org.au maybe. It just seems like a huge project when finding something that bolts up would be a whole lot easier.

  4. #94
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    Oct 2011
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    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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    If that is a 4 cylinder Toyota engine, might be worth trying forklift repair places too. All those millions of Toyota forklifts with modified corolla engines...

    Michael

  5. #95
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    Nov 2008
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    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
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    What engine do you have? I may be able to help source a flywheel.
    Nev.

  6. #96
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    Aug 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Just bought a flywheel on ebay for $20.

    No guarantee it will fit because its off a different model. Im in with a chance though as ive done some reading. Basically corolla flywheels came in 6 and (later) 8 bolt patterns. Get one with the same bolt pattern and all should be good. Apparently there can be issues with some not fitting on bell housings of other models but thats not an issue for me.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #97
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    Thanks for the advice and offers for help everyone.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #98
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    Quick update. The flywheel arrived couple days ago. It weighs spot on 8kg and looks to be in good nick. It fits fine and the starter engages well so no issues there.

    I was nearly thinging it was going to be a "plug and play" as my adapter block (this piggy backs the ring gear and has the keyway to drive the hydraulic pump) fits neatly inside the flywheel. Surely it couldnt be that easy?

    Well no, not quite. Since the flywheel mounting flange is a bit thicker than the flexplate, it pushes my mounting block out a further 10mm approx. Thats 10mm of room i dont have so i will need to trim my mounting block by that amount. I still think i got out of gaol with that one!

    Theres also no room for the speed sensor where it originally was. So i will mount it in another spot to pick up the teeth on the flywheel. Thats 106 teeth. At 3000 rpm it equates to 5300Hz on the speed sensor. The electronic governor is good up to 7.5Khz so well within spec there but its yet to be seen if the induction sensor itself has a response time fast enough to deal with that.

    While the pump is off the corolla, i have run it with the flywheel to test for correct starter engagement and balance. Runs nicely. Much smoother.

    See if i can get some pics in next few days.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #99
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    Hi all,

    I have done some more work on this splitter and for once I can see an end in sight to this project. After the addition of a flywheel, I made the required modifications to the mounting hardware to re-fit the pump. It all runs really well. I don't understand why but the whole engine & pump are much quieter with the flywheel fitted.

    I am still having issues with the electronic engine governor. I can't seem to get it to run smoothly and without erratic behaviour. It also overshoots the set rev point once the engine is loaded and it detects a drop in revs. I will persevere and keep trying for now to sort it out although I can pretty much run it without any engine speed governing as the flywheel seems to store enough energy for the engine to split anything now without stalling.

    I have also plumbed up all the fittings for the log lifting. It now runs off the main pump via a second spool valve. I also ran into a bit of trouble with this the other day. Having attached all the plumbing and hoses, the only thing left to do was to attach the log lifting ram and cycle it in and out to bleed the air. It turns out the ram was as stiff as anything and barely wanted to extend or retract. Without anything attached to the ram, it was producing about 1000 psi in back pressure just to extend and retract!

    Closer inspection revealed that the ram I had bought for an absolute bargain actually had a bent shaft! The seller told me he had bent a ram on his Bobcat and had to replace both because they only come in a pair, so he replaced both. Well, it turns out he really did need to replace both because he bloody well bent both! Anyway, at $20 I really couldn't complain I guess.

    So, I thought I would investigate the straightening of bent hydraulic shafts. Youtube provided some "interesting" results to say the least including a dude who straigtened his shaft without even removing the ram, using a chain and a car jack. He actually achieved reasonable results.

    So I took the ram apart and it soon became obvious that the shaft was bent. Not a huge amount to the eye but on a set of V blocks it registered a TIR of a few mm.

    So I set about setting up a rig to straighten it out as best I could. My setup was rough and ready to say the least. I made a couple of timber V blocks out of a piece of 5x5" cypress pine. I did this with a a couple of strokes from a compound mitre saw, nothing special or even calculated.

    I set these under my press. I marked the high spots on the shaft and put it under the press. I then set up my machine V blocks on my mill table. Bit by bit I pressed and then transfered to the mill table with the V blocks and an indicator. cycle after cycle I pressed and measured. Until in the end I got the shaft to within a TIR of 0.05mm. I called that done!

    I put the hydraulic ram back together and to my surprise, it's a smooth as all get out and no leaks! SWEET!

    I got out of gaol with that one too. I will post some pics in the next few days. I noticed in my last post I said the same thing but I really will take some pics today and post.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Sydney
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    Simon,

    Great progress. I understand that you have an electronic speed governor? The symptoms you describe pretty much fit a gain setting that is too high, or if the governor is more sophisticated then the differential gain is set too low. What adjustments does the governor have? Did it come with any instructions for tuning? Maybe you've tried tuning it already, if not and you need help let me know. In another life I did this sort of thing (PID loop tuning) for a living.

    Graham.

  11. #101
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    Hi Graham,

    You certainly have the expertise and experience I may need to draw on!

    The electronic governor (ESD5500E) has both Gain and Stability trimpots. I have the instructions for this and it details the process to follow WRT the adjustment of both the gain and stability settings. It also has a jumper which, if you can't achieve stable performance, it suggests adding a capacitor across this jumper. The value of the capacitor would be trial and error but they suggest starting at 10 mircofarrad.

    Initially I thought my problems were that the engine was not running smoothly enough for the governor, but since then I have re-built the carby and replaced the distributor cap, leads, spark plugs and replaced the points with electronic ignition and it runs beautifully. The other potential issue that I can think of (and I will run this by you to see what you think) is the fact that the linear proportional actuator has a total movement from de-energised to fully extended of only 12mm. This equates to rotating the throttle on the carby nearly 90 degrees. This means that a very small change in current to the actuator equates to large throttle changes. I'm wondering if I may be asking for too much "resolution" in the control of the actuator from the governor? I can't see any other way around it as most actuators only move small amounts and this small movement needs to control the throttle from nearly closed (idle) to WOT (full fuel)

    I was hoping that the addition of the flywheel would help smooth out the the spikes in the revs of the engine governor. It has helped a bit but not as much as I thought.

    It's been school holidays so I have not had the chance to dedicate a good deal of time to tinkering with this. Tuesday maybe a good day for me to have another look...

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #102
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    Dec 2013
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    Sydney
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    Hi Simon,

    The symptoms you describe (erratic behaviour and overshoot) are most likely due to too much gain in the system. The total gain of the system is the product of the mechanical gain of your linkage (how much the throttle moves for a given actuator movement), and the electronic gain in the governor. Normally, as you say, you'd arrange for the full actuator travel to correspond to throttle travel from idle to full throttle. But this may not be necessary in your case for the following reasons:

    You say that the engine with its new flywheel has enough inertia to split a log without stalling. This suggests that you don't need the governor to apply anything like full throttle. So you may be able to reduce the mechanical gain by making a longer linkage arm on the throttle. Set the linkage up so it travels from idle to say half throttle.

    The governor you have is clearly designed for controlling the speed of engine generator units. In this application the response (gain) needs to be strong and fast as the task is to maintain a 50 Hz, 250 V output as closely as possible. In your application, you don't really care if the speed droops a bit, so you can use much lower gain settings.


    So, I'd suggest that you start by turning the gain and stability controls down low, then gradually turn the gain (the P for "proportional" in PID loop terminology) up until you can detect some overshoot when you change the speed setting, then back it off somewhat.

    Then do the same for the stability setting (which I'm assuming is a differential feed-forward gain setting - the D for "differential" in PID loop terminology). Turning up the stability setting should kill some of the overshoot that you got when first setting the gain setting, so by backing off both controls from the overshoot/instability position you get a good margin away from instability.

    The manual for the ESD5500E describes this exact procedure for tuning, but if your linkage has too much mechanical gain, or has too much lost motion or backlash, you may never be able to get to stable operation within the range of electrical gain adjustment the unit gives. Hence my suggestion of lengthening the arm of the throttle linkage. But I'd try going through the above procedure first before changing any of the linkages.

    Don't overlook the need for a backlash free linkage. No amount of governor tuning will work if the throttle is able to wiggle all over the place when the actuator is still. Generator engines typically have springs across the governor and throttle linkages to remove any backlash. There is a quite a changing load coming back from the throttle butterfly - not usually noticeable when it's operated by a shoed foot in a car, but this changing load will take advantage of any lost motion in the linkage which will lead to erratic behaviour.

    Hope this helps,
    Graham.

  13. #103
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    Mar 2014
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    South of Adelaide
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    1,225

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    Good job straightening the rod. That is exactly how us pro's do it.

  14. #104
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    Thanks Graham,

    What you describe sounds exactly what I need to do. It never occured to me to reduce the mechanical gain at the cost of not achieving WOT. Even if I only achieve a maximum of 1/2 throttle, it will most likely be enough, that's a stroke of genius! I will have one last go tomorrow at tuning the system the way it is, failing that I will bit by bit start to reduce the throttle range and see how that goes. As for backlash, I took great care in the design and making of the lever system to ensure that was next to no backlash. It's all pretty tight, it's one thing I have done right!

    Stay tuned, I will give an update tomorrow night, hopefully.

    Hi Snap, thanks mate. Initially my thoughts were all over the place with how to tackle the straightening. Bending the hi spot seemed pretty obvious but I really was not sure how many spots I have to apply force to or even how far to span the timber V blocks over, full length or keep them close, in between the bent part. In the end I thought that maybe I was over-thinking it an just support the shart at each end and apply force at the point of maximum TIR. This is what I did, including using an aluminium pad between the press and the shaft, so as to spread the force over about a 2 inch length of the rod and protect it from scaring the rod. The results in the end exceeded my expectation, which does not often happen!

    Anyway, here are some pics of where I'm at so far...

    Pic 1: you can see the addition of another spool valve on the LHS. This operates the log lifter. I also adjusted the pressure relief valve way down to about 500 psi on this
    Pic 2: The original levers on the spool valves are very annoying (the LHS one is yet to be changed) so I bent and milled up a new one. This provides a much more ergonomic lever movement than the original. The ball on the end is also a nice feel.
    Pic 3: Log lifter at horizontal position. The ram will extend it about another 15 degrees from the horizontal at full extension.
    Pic 4: This part of the log lifter is kind of my own design. It's designed to house the log after you roll it on. The V shape is intended to stop the log rolling off.
    Pic 5: Just another view of the lifter...
    Pic 6: When not in use or when being towed, the log lifter can be disconnected from the ram (and the ram retracted) and hinged all the way up. It's secured with a chain that attaches to a lifting eye on the top of the beam.
    Pic 7: When the lifter is attached to the ram and being used, the chain attaches to another eye which is welded underneath. This keeps things a little neater.
    Pic 8: My dodgy (but effective) timber V block setup and my press used to straighten the rod. The aluminium block on the LHS sat between the rod and the press.



    Cheers,

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  15. #105
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    Success!

    Thanks to some help from Graham I have managed to get this electronic engine governor to work reasonably well. It was a combination of 3 factors that finally got me over the line. Firstly, I reduced the mechanical gain in the system so that an incremental movement on the actuator moves the throttle slightly less. It no longer can achieve full throttle but as Graham pointed out, it does not need to. So I traded off some throttle for some extra stability. Secondly, I wound both the gain and the stability trimpots to almost at the end, meaning a very docile response to a change in engine revs from the pre-set rpm. As a consequence, it drops a few hundred rpm when it hits a big log but it soon recovers. Thirdly, and this was a stab in the dark, I replaced the return spring in the actuator with the factory original one. I initially replaced the return spring in the actuator because I was worried it would not have the strength to overcome both it's own internal return spring (quite stiff) and the springs on the carby. So I replaced that spring with that of a similar size but a lesser spring constant. As a final stab in the dark I put the original spring back, which makes moving the throttle require just that little extra effort which means the governor needs to pump more current into the actuator for the same amount of travel. I should have left it the way it was!

    I now have a system that, when started the gov. sets the engine at idle once started and then after about 5 seconds it ramps the engine speed up in a controlled fashion to the set point, which is around 2500 rpm. It's still a little playful at times though I must admitt. Sometimes on startup it shoots the engine speed up to 3000 rpm before coming back down to 2500 rpm. There is also an idle switch which sets the engine at idle, as described. This also works fine too.

    I could do a short video on youtube and post it here in case anyone is interested.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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