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  1. #61
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    Diagram and picture of parts

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  2. #62
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    Heres a closeup of the head diagram.

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    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #63
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    wollondilly nsw
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    Simon that is the arrangement I was envisaging as the outcome of what i described. But yours has a step in the shaft under the bearing correct? Have you considered welding it up and turning it back down to size?

    Sent from my SM-T355Y using Tapatalk

  4. #64
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    No. Id be too scared to weld in case it warped. Im not a very technical welder. Also im not sure of the material the shaft is made from but its quite hard or tough. Its not ms.

    Simon



    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  5. #65
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    Hi Simon,

    Thanks for the drawing, very interesting and useful !

    I reckon that someone has done a poor repair job at sometime. I would seriously consider turning the end down so that it is parallel. Depending upon how much meat is in the shaft at that point, I wouldn't worry to much about the waist, as long as the ends of that section are the same diameter and a reasonable length. Make a collar, press fit or locktite it in place. Turn it down for the new bearing and make a new circlip groove. From the diagram there is no indication of the fitting or parts that you show in you pictures
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  6. #66
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    wollondilly nsw
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    The interference bush may not have the depth to drop a circlip groove in there. How much longer can you make the bush Simon? Might be able to step it in over the ens of the shaft to make it thicker and bring the circlip out further. Then put a spacer ring between the bearing and the circlip to take up the extra gap

    Sent from my SM-T355Y using Tapatalk

  7. #67
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    Hi all,

    Not wanting to make a complete balls up of this job by modifying a part that perhaps needs no modifying, I slept on it last night and studied that drawings and surfed google images (again) to see if either I was missing something or I could find a way to assemble without making any modifications.

    Couple of things occured to me; (1) there is a "separating washer that sits between the spindle and the upper pulley shaft. This sets the separation space between the two castlated couplings. This separation distance has a flow on affect and affects where the bearing sits on the end of the shaft, the bearing I have been trying to work out. Needless to say, this separation washer is missing. So before going any further I made a replacement washer. While it's dimensions are not overly critical, making it too thick will mean less depth in the messing of the coupling. It only has about 5mm to play with and the tops have already been partially rounded indicating it may have the potential to jump out under load if the full depth is not engaged. Too thin and it will allow the shaft to sit too low this will affect the operation of the hi/lo speed back gear changing.

    So, I made a wahser out of some scrap CI. It ended up being about 7.1mm thick. Ift was a matter of trial and error. The spot is compact and I couldn't get any depth measurement. and it's almost impossible to see if it interferes with the messing by beeing too thick. So I blued one surface and checked for contact and then ran the washer through the SG taking off a couple thou at a time until I got it about right.

    First pic shows the shaft and the castilated coupling that couples to a corresponding shaft which is the top of the spindle. The wahser is the part that has the blue tinge just above the toothed cog. The underneath of the pulley cone is at the bottom. Sorry it's sideways, I took the pic with the correct orientation, promise!

    20170721_125848.jpg

    This separating washer has now helped me because it sits on top of a bearing which is seated with a circlip top and bottom, so there is now no adjustment. I have a reference to work from.

    With regards to that dodgy bearing mount, I decided to try a new approach. I kept the current setup but I pressed the bearing all the way to the shoulder on the shaft. This obviously left a gap between the bearing and the circlip, 3,7mm gap to be a little more precise and it also means that this top bearing will not longer seat hard up into the shoulder of the top bearing cover/retainer. Looking at the top bearing cover, it is very deep and even if the bearing does not seat all the way, the outer race is still fully inserted in this cover, so I made another washer. I take some measurements and come up with a wahser that's about 4mm thick and seat it between the top bearing and the top bearing cover.

    This bearing also needs to be fine tuned. Too thick and the bearing retainer will not screw down onto the top housing. Too thin and it will allow endplace and (potential) upwards movement of the shaft. Remember the shaft can no longer move down is it's resting on the separating washer I showed earlier.

    I was a matter of taking some measurements with feeler gauges and then skimming off a little more on the surface grinder, re-measure and repeat until I was happy with the fit. Pic1 is the washer, pic 2 is the same washer sitting in the bottom (actually the top) of the bearing cover pic3 is the same bearing cover screwed to the top motor housing and I'm testing the fit.

    20170721_123503.jpg20170721_123631.jpg 20170721_122358.jpg

    With everything bolted down snuggly, everthing seems to rotate nice and look good. I'm calling that done!

    On a side note, may I say that gess I'm really dumb sometimes. I machine rebuilder I certainly am not. Phil, if you are reading this.... Your job is incredibly safe buddy! The reason I say this is because I have a box of parts that came with this mill (parts are getting less and less thank goodness) and right at the bottom of this box cover in crud are these shims

    20170721_134644.jpg

    Yes, they go under the cover to create the required clearance for the bearing. There was still about 3mm of endplay which I took care of and these shims don't explain that but these shims ultimately do what I did with the feeler gauges and the surface grinder. Oh well, I guess the manufacturer would rather assemble and then take up any tollerances with shims rather than disasseble and fine tune a washer on a SG.

    Here are the parts parially assembled, you can see the separating washer on the shaft. Stupid photo uploader put my pics on the side again.

    20170721_125819.jpg20170721_125806.jpg

    Final assembly will now be waiting on me sanding, painting, sanding and more painting of the top motor housing which is in a state of bondo and primer...

    Thanks everyone for their support and suggestions so far. Hopefully it won't be long before I'm in a position to fire it up and test. I'll be nervous but running it on VFD means I can start from 5hz....

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #68
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    Well after alot of sanding and a coat of etch primer, i have painted the first coat of "machinery grey" on the top cover.

    Its not a showroom job but it looks neat and practical enough for a machine of its age and condition..

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #69
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    Apr 2012
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    Healesville
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    G/day Simon, nice project and looks as tho coming along well

    "castilated coupling" is usually called a dog clutch.

    cheers, shed

  10. #70
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    Cheers, Thanks. A dog clutch it is from now on!

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #71
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    Did a couple more things today. Cleaned and de-rusted the 4 pulley cones and assembled for the last time (hopefully). Also made a small part that attaches the variable speed selector chain to the pulley lever.

    I also compressed the motor pulley spring to force open the two pulley halves on the motor side. This can be done with either some m5 all thread or a few m5 bolts. The idea is by doing this and then doing the same with the pulley cones on the spindle side, it allows the motor and pulleys to be slid over the cv belt during final assembly.

    There is a small coved plate that allows access to the bolts so that they can be removed after assembly, allowing the spring tension to find its natural position.

    So right now im basically waiting on paint to dry. Which in this weather is frustrating. We have a heated drying room at work. Guess whats going to go in there on my night shift...


    Pic1 is the back gear installed with the cogged belt (used for low speed setting)
    You can also see the brake lining for the spindle brake.

    Pic2 is the motor pulley and spring in compressed state using 2xm5 bolts.

    Pic3 shows the clearence it creates for the belt between the two pulley halves. In operation the spring would be in this state at the slowest speed setting. You then choose the high speed setting on the front pulleys (also wide open) this creates an unnatural state and gives slack for the belt.

    Pic4 for demonstration purposes showing the speed selector chain attached to the pulley lever. These are normally attached to the housing which is being painted...

    Simon



    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #72
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    Spent some more time on the mill today. More just frigging around than anything. I installed the motor cover and spinddle pulleys. I then spent half a day trying/attempting to put the motor and pulleys in place with no success. It's a very tight squeeze, the opening flange where the motor seats is only a little bigger than the actual pulley, the slack in the belt is not luxurious by any stretch of the imagination so wrestling with a 20Kg motor and trying to slip the belt over the bottom pulley cone before pushing the motor all the way home is an artform I am yet to master!

    A google search turns up many posts on several forums of people struggling to do the same thing. Although they ultimately succeed!

    In despiration I turned to the owners manual. While it does not cover installation, I talks about motor removal. They suggest removing the bolt that holds the pulley and then removing the motor and intially leaving the pulley cones in place.

    I've missed my window of oppotunity time wise to try that today but will attack it with renewed enthusiasm in a couple of days with some more pics just in case there is some poor soul out there needing to do a simlar exercise in the future.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  13. #73
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    OK. I couldn't let this beat me before I start my working week so I had another look. I removed the pulley from the motor as per the instruction manual. Turns out it was a good idea in more ways than one as the cap screw that retains the pulley to the motor was loose!

    In pic 1 you can see the hole where the motor bolt to. The belt inside waiting to be mated to the motor pulley. As you can see, not much room in there. You need midwives hands to get anywhere near it with the pulley in there.

    20170724_211517.jpg

    Next pic shows an attempt and sliding the pulley (minus the motor) onto the belt.... Actually, the pulley is upside down but the pic was demonstration purposes to show the close fit of the arrangement. Even without the motor, that pulley was never going in there like that!

    20170724_211548.jpg

    What I do next is to dis-assemble the motor cover (again) and then place the pulley inside the cover before sliding the cover over the rest of the running parts attached to the mill.

    Pic 3 gives you some idea although that pulley needed to be inside the cover first..

    20170724_212342.jpg

    So, after some more mucking around and a bit more cursing and some more scratches on my freshly painted cover, I get to this stage...

    20170724_213207.jpg

    The motor pulley inside and awaiting the motor. That's it for now. I'll certainly know how to do it in a 10th of the time next time!

    Edit: got no idea why the last two pics are in this lot...

    Simon
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  14. #74
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    Last few days i have drawn my attention to the motor. Its a 3ph 3hp job and seems to weigh a tonne. Actually its about 18kg but its bloody heavy when your tryjng to fit it on top of a mill!

    As a kind gesture, the motor has the star point in the junction box so for once i dont have to rewire a motor for VFD!

    I sat it on top of the mill in readiness when i realised it looks pretty crap next to the fresh painted housing so i decided to paint the motot too.

    Pic1 is the junction box as set up for standard 3 phase (as in at a factory)

    Pic2 after a paint job and reconfigured to delta goodrem configuration.

    I also connected the speed selector and chain to the spindle pulley. Turning the handle either shortens or lengthens the chain allowing the pulley cones to separate and change the effective pulley ratios. The spring loaded pulley cones on the motor just react accordingly, so when one pulley opens, the other one closes which keeps the same tension on the belt.

    Attaching the chain ferrule thing tk the cap bolt was a bit fidly but nowhere near as fidly as fitting the motor and belt. A piece of string held it in place while i looselt bolted on the front plate. I then held the ferrule with pointy nose pliars while feeling through the allen key until i made contact and the thread took up.

    Pic3 shows the speed selector chain through the small inspection hole. There is also a smaller hole in the top to access the cap screw.

    There are now two levels of adjustment to be made. The adjustment on the screw in depth of that ferrule and the front circular disc with rpm indication on it.

    The handwheel on the rhs that winds the chain in and out has a finite number of turns as the worm wheel inside has a limiting pin. The cap screw needs to be adjusted to ensure you get full movement of the pulley cone from closed to open. Otherwise you will not get the full rpm range. Secondly, after the cap screw length is correct, the front dome nut is loosened and the rpm disc can be rotated to indicate correct rpm.

    Was planning to have that already done but my cheapie optical tacho needs a new 9v battery.

    I have since powered up the motor (sounds great) and run the mill across the rpm range and im pretty happy. Even at 4000 rpm it sound nicer than my geared head mill at half the speed.

    Ill make some adjustments and calibrate the rpm indicator dial and call it a day. Quit while im ahead!

    Next little jobbie will be to turn my attention to the X power feed. Its a servo products type 90 feed. It does not work... yet. I had searched the www high and low to indentify this feed but nothing came up. As a last ditch effort i emailed a company in the US that sells and services servo products.

    They were extremely helpful. They identified the model (type 90) and supplied me with a parts diagram AND a circuit diagram. They told me that they are a great power feed made some 30 years ago. No longer made and parts are scarce but they still have some parts. They told me its a pitty im not in the US because they can rebuild it for me back to almost new for about $US220

    Thanks to their help im confident of repairing it. For a reasonable price..

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  15. #75
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    OK. I need to help.

    I have since tested the variable speed drive. It does not achieve the full speed range, being approx. 60 - 3750 rpm. It max's out at about 2700 rpm. I don't think its an adjustment issue as the spindle pulley cone definately cannot separate any further as it nearly touches the top of the motor cover. I'm wondering if the belt is the wrong size, pitch or angle. I have done several searches on the net to try find the correct belt but it has been a bit hit/miss.

    Here is what I know;

    The belt on the mill at present is a 37x10x900.
    The correct belt according to the manual is called a P.I.V. H3 900

    I have read at least one post on another forum stating that the belt should be a 30x10x900. When I bought the mill, the seller said he bought another belt which was supplied with the box of parts. I'm wondering if he bought the wrong belt. If in deed it should be 30mm wide and not 37mm then this extra width may limit the speed range.

    Anyone have any idea or suggestions?

    Cheers,

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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