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Thread: Old no name lathe
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19th Aug 2018, 09:21 PM #1Novice
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Old no name lathe
Hi everyone,
First time here and I'm hoping for some help in learning about a new (old) lathe I purchased.
As part of a restoration of an old 1961 split screen kombi, I found myself becoming more and more interested in shaping and building panels by hand. This has led me to also consider making tools as well.
What a rabbit hole I fell into!
My recent direction led me to want to get a lathe, but I wanted an older model. So I ended up with this little number.
001.jpg
I'm told its really old but wasn't able to find any reference to a model or brand. I'de love to know what it is, if anyone can help, I'de be grateful.
Cheers,
Joe
002.jpg
003.jpg
004.jpg
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19th Aug 2018, 10:48 PM #2Most Valued Member
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Its certainly a nice looking lathe, I like the full handwheels, did it come with a good selection of changegears? Its definitely pretty early, I would say 1890 - 1910 somewhere.
The outboard rear bearing means its in that range or earlier.
It has pretty rough finished castings but looks well executed, the tumble reverse is well done and the half nut engagement is also pretty.
Best of luck - Ralph
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20th Aug 2018, 12:25 PM #3Golden Member
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Hi Joe,
My guess, looking at the flat bed and tailstock design, is that it is of UK origin.
Can you give us a few more clues?
What is the height of the centre of the chuck above the lathe bed? It is likely to be an even inch or half inch dimension, or an even multiple of 10 millimetres.
Do you have a headstock centre? If so what is the distance from the headstock centre point to the tailstock centre point with the back of the tailstock level with the end of the lathe bed and the tailstock centre fully retracted?
What is the pitch of the leadscrew thread? It should be either a whole number of threads per inch or an exact number of millimetres from a point on one thread crest to the same point on the next thread crest.
Check the distance across the flats on several bolt heads of various sizes in case some are not original. If they are in even sixteenth of an inch dimensions they are probably American. If they are an even number of millimetres they are probably of Continental origin. If they seem to be odd sizes they are probably Whitworth, which would suggest UK or possibly Australian origin, or maybe even German. Some pre WW1 German machinery used Whitworth sizes, and several makes were imported into Australia between WW1 and WW2, though your lathe looks older than this.
Do you have any of the change gears for thread cutting? On small lathes it seems to be more common for American change gears to go up in multiples of four teeth and English ones in five teeth though this is not universal by any means. I have no idea if there is any common progression of change gears with metric gears, but I suspect that there would be more variations than with imperial gears.
When you have these dimensions and an indication of the country of origin, go to:
Lathes + Machine Tool Archive
and scroll through the index of lathes, checking the photos for lathes with similar features to yours. Yours has fairly distinctive headstock and tailstock shapes for a start.
If all else fails and nobody comes up with a positive identity, it would be worth emailing a few clear photos and the lathe dimensions to Tony Griffiths at the Lathes .co.uk site to see if he can make a positive identification. If he cannot, he will probably request further information and include it in the Unknown Lathes section of his website where it will be exposed yo a wider audience.
Good luck with your search,
Frank
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21st Aug 2018, 02:52 PM #4Novice
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Thank you Ralph, Frank and all,
I'll add more photos as I can, starting with the additional gears.
The lathe is 1.2 meters in length.
I counted the teeth and numbered the image with them, hoping this might help in some way.
AB1.jpg
I also measured the pitch of the automatic feed thread.
AB3b.jpg
AB3.jpg
I don't have a headstock centre, but I measured the distance from the Chuck to the tailstock centre, which is 630mm or near 25 inches.
AB4.jpg
I wasn't sure if this was what you meant Frank, regarding "distance across the flats".
AB5.jpg
Thanks again everyone, great forum!!
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22nd Aug 2018, 10:11 AM #5Golden Member
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Hi Joe,
The leadscrew threads are a bit difficult to see in the photos, but it looks to me to be 8 tpi, very common on small imperial (inch dimensioned) lathes.
Did you manage to get a measurement either from the centre of the chuck or from the tailstock centre to the lathe bed? Lathes sizes in Australia, US and most other countries are usually quoted as the diameter of material you can swing over the bed (double the centre height) x the maximum distance available between the headstock and tailstock centres. For example, I have a small lathe in your size range which is classified as a 9x18 lathe, i.e 9 inch swing by 18 inches between centres. If you can establish these dimensions for your lathe it will help to shorten your search. Sometimes in older UK publications lathe sizes are quoted as centre height x distance between centres, just to confuse the issue.
Your gears are going up in multiples of five teeth, which seems to be more common on small English lathes than American ones, where multiples of 4 teeth are more common.
Yes, that is the distance across the fastener flats that I was referring to. If you find that the majority of the original fasteners fall into one of the three classes I mentioned above this will give another clue to the country of origin. Machinery made in the UK and British Empire countries used Whitworth or BSF (same head sizes) fasteners almost exclusively before WW2 on any fasteners over 1/4 inch diameter. These fastener heads and nuts don't seem to follow any conventional regular progression in spanner sizes, so often they appear to be random (they aren't though) and will not all be in even sixteenths of an inch like the US fasteners. US fastener flats are normally in sixteenth inch steps, and metric in whole millimetres. People often ignore the original fasteners when trying to identify the origin of old machinery, but they can often provide a useful clue.
Once again, good luck with your search.
Frank.
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22nd Aug 2018, 03:05 PM #6Most Valued Member
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Any branding or marking on the chucks, what thread is on the spindle mount?
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22nd Aug 2018, 05:05 PM #7Novice
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22nd Aug 2018, 05:10 PM #8Novice
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23rd Aug 2018, 01:10 PM #9Golden Member
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Joe,
In the new clearer photo the leadscrew appears to me to be 6 TPI. Would you agree with that, since you were in a better position to read the tape? If so, this is less common than 8 TPI, so may help with the identification.
Hard to pick the tailstock centre height, but it looks to me to be closer to 5 inches than any multiple of 10mm. If this is the case the lathe would probably be classed as a 10x26, a useful size.
When you take the chuck off, if the headstock spindle has an exact number of threads per inch and if the original fasteners appear to be Whitworth I think you could safely assume it is of British, or less likely, Australian origin. There is no standard for headstock spindle threads, but likely sizes would be 1 1/2"x 8 TPI, 1 3/4"x 8 TPI or 1 3/4"x 6 TPI.
Unless someone here can come up with a positive identification from the photos and lathe dimensions, I think your next step would have to be going through all the photos on Tony's lathes.co.uk website and look for photos of British lathes about the size of yours - a mammoth task! As a last resort send Tony an email with some clear photos including the headstock, apron and tailstock, and a description of the lathe.
There is a slim chance you might get an identification if you post photos and a description of the lathe in the antique machinery and history section of the Practical Machinist Forum, particularly if it should turn out to have been made in America, which I doubt. There are some very knowledgeable members there, particularly on the subject of old American lathes. There are also a few from the UK who can be very helpful. Warning! read the Forum rules first, and give your post a title which clearly states the reason for the post. A title like "Help Needed" is almost a guarantee that the thread will be sidetracked and no useful information will be obtained. Play by their rules and you will get a lot of useful help.
Frank.
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26th Aug 2018, 11:30 AM #10Senior Member
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There is an example of a gear chart for a 6TPI lead screw on the IXL page of Tony's site that might be of use?
IXL Leader Lathes
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