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Thread: Whisperings

  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Phil,

    I'm no expert so this is from memory.

    The female bore is parallel and not tapered, the thread is a 50 degree Whitworth form. A lot of people seem to mix up the American NPT with the BSPT. If I recall correctly the NTP is a bigger diameter for a given pipe size. The figure of 65% for something sticks in my mind but I can't remember why.
    The few pipe joints that I recall were lathered to the hilt with "Boss White" thread paste because they always seemed to leak. I do remember the pipe breaking off on an odd occasion when trying to tighten it up to stop it dripping.

    HTH
    Hi Baron,
    I'm using pressure rated fittings on this job and it was a surprise to me that they are actually tapered threads in the female bores. I didn't think they came that way but these did although I am pretty sure and in fact quite confident that they are 55 deg Whitworth and not 50.

    I'm not sure about the bigger diameter stuff but I do know that some sizes are different TPI on the NPT (formerly known as Briggs).

    I can absolutely believe in a thread engagement of 65% but when mating two tapered threads the aim is for 100% engagement.
    The job is going well at the moment and I should be able to finish the flange tomorrow...fingers crossed.

    Phil

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Like I said, weld it - done & dusted. Could have done half a dozen for spares in the same time you've been making one to the wrong size )

    OK you have stupid rules to abide by, get a certified welder to weld it. I could do it, I've been certified...........

    ............ but they made a mistake and let me out after a while.

    If we were talking 300 bar pressures I might not be quite so cavalier though.

    PDW
    Now Pete, you know they didn't have welders back in those days and yes there are some bits that are welded and they are also well (and sometimes not so well) hidden from public view. I don't have that luxury with this job as it is stuck out front of the boiler, plus we refuse to 'modernise' a historical piece of equipment unless we really have to. If we didn't bother going the extra mile then we may as well just stand there with books and show pictures of what it used to look like.
    Those rules are rules that we stand by in the interests of historical accuracy to convey a little bit of living history that can't be found in books. You can look at a picture of a boiler furnace and it will never convey what it is like to actually stand in front of one.
    Just to clarify, I didn't make one the wrong size, in fact it was spot on, just for the wrong application

    Phil

  3. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer View Post
    Hi Baron,
    I'm using pressure rated fittings on this job and it was a surprise to me that they are actually tapered threads in the female bores. I didn't think they came that way but these did although I am pretty sure and in fact quite confident that they are 55 deg Whitworth and not 50.

    I'm not sure about the bigger diameter stuff but I do know that some sizes are different TPI on the NPT (formerly known as Briggs).

    I can absolutely believe in a thread engagement of 65% but when mating two tapered threads the aim is for 100% engagement.
    The job is going well at the moment and I should be able to finish the flange tomorrow...fingers crossed.

    Phil
    Hi Phil,
    Sorry about the typo It should have said 55 deg. I don't recall ever seeing a tapered female bore, all the ones I came across were always parallel.

    How do they make a tapered female threaded socket ?

    PS. Thanks for the pictures and notes.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Phil,
    Sorry about the typo It should have said 55 deg. I don't recall ever seeing a tapered female bore, all the ones I came across were always parallel.

    How do they make a tapered female threaded socket ?

    PS. Thanks for the pictures and notes.
    Phew on the 55 deg typo Baron, there are so many discrepancies on the pipe threads that I thought that may have been another one I hadn't found yet.
    I had never seen a tapered bore thread either but all these ones are including the valves.
    I can only guess that with CNC capabilities now it is easy.
    As you can imagine I have done the odd steam pipe thread over the years and I have never come across a tapered thread on a socket, barrel union, valve, elbow, tee etc...but I also may have never looked close enough it seems.
    Glad you like the pics with the notes, they are working well for provenance too.

    Phil

  5. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer View Post
    Now Pete, you know they didn't have welders back in those days
    Of course they did, they called them 'blacksmiths'......

    Yah, I understand the 'historical accuracy' bit but IMO - and yes, I *am* opinionated - this can go too far.

    I use as classic examples the crap that goes on with heritage listed houses. One example I know of, they had to re-roof with corrugated iron sheets of the same length as the originals. Never mind that it leaked, never mind that we know better than to pitch a roof that low with end laps, it had to be done to meet the 'heritage' standard.

    The silly idiots didn't realise they were using zincalume though, so it still wasn't right.

    IMO pressure fittings fall into the same category. Sorry, we know a better way of doing it, a stronger and safer way. There's a lot of things that used to be done that we no longer do, historical accuracy be damned, because they weren't safe then and aren't safe now. Difference is, now we know.

    Yeah, a screwed fitting, done properly, is perfectly safe. No argument from me. I'd still have welded it.

    Sitting in Echuca now. Might be near you on Friday, hard to say for sure.

    PDW

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post

    Sitting in Echuca now. Might be near you on Friday, hard to say for sure.

    PDW
    If you are in Echuca for a day or two, take time to visit Rich River Dealers, 48/50 Mundarra Rd, Echuca VIC 3564
    You won't be dissapointed.

    Ray

  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    If you are in Echuca for a day or two, take time to visit Rich River Dealers, 48/50 Mundarra Rd, Echuca VIC 3564
    You won't be dissapointed.

    Ray
    Possibly not, but I'll likely be broke if I go there. Fortunately, there's little room left on the truck already - I had to ship 3 crates home from Sydney as it is. I blame those unnamed people who send me emails about Grays auctions......

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    I blame those unnamed people who send me emails about Grays auctions......

    PDW

  9. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by variant22 View Post
    The guilty flee when none pursue.....

    PDW

  10. #835
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    Well the sparge is finally finished and I am happy to say I learnt a few new things about pipe threads as well.
    Of course the proof will be in the pudding but I'm pretty happy with how it fitted up.

    Phil
    ps In the 4th pic the bottom line reads 'alignment inside the boiler'. Dunno why it does that
    IMG_7248.JPG IMG_7255.JPG IMG_7264.jpg IMG_7265.JPG IMG_7266.JPG IMG_7269.JPG IMG_7271.jpg

  11. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer View Post
    Well the sparge is finally finished and I am happy to say I learnt a few new things about pipe threads as well.
    Of course the proof will be in the pudding but I'm pretty happy with how it fitted up.

    Phil
    ps In the 4th pic the bottom line reads 'alignment inside the boiler'. Dunno why it does that
    IMG_7248.JPG IMG_7255.JPG IMG_7264.jpg IMG_7265.JPG IMG_7266.JPG IMG_7269.JPG IMG_7271.jpg
    Looks OK - needs to get nicely black before it looks original though.....

    BTW somewhere at home I have a small box full of those boiler level glasses - you can have them if you want them, I only grabbed them to pass onto a good home one day, no use to me.

    I need to have a return to my previous state before I build a boat suitable for fitting a steam engine. Not to mention building the engine itself. Though there's always this baby in the back of my mind, for when I'm really bored....

    http://hasbrouck.8m.com/eng8.htm

    PDW

  12. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Looks OK - needs to get nicely black before it looks original though.....

    BTW somewhere at home I have a small box full of those boiler level glasses - you can have them if you want them, I only grabbed them to pass onto a good home one day, no use to me.

    I need to have a return to my previous state before I build a boat suitable for fitting a steam engine. Not to mention building the engine itself. Though there's always this baby in the back of my mind, for when I'm really bored....

    http://hasbrouck.8m.com/eng8.htm

    PDW
    Hi Pete
    I'm sure the flange is going to get a good dose of boot polish and become like the rest of the boiler very soon.
    Those gauge glasses could be very handy as we use them on the lubricators as well. For the boilers we buy them cut to length and fused on the ends, plus, with the lengths involved in the boilers, any longitudinal scratches create a weak point and the potential for cracking.
    Nice little engine that one. The boss and I have on several occasions kicked around the idea of putting a paddle steamer back on Lake Wendouree. There used to be one back in the day.
    As an aside, we have Klinger gauge glasses on our boilers so it pays to buy Klinger parts when we service the boilers and of course new glass rubber seals always go in.
    We got the original rubbers from Klinger this year (as usual), and yesterday I threw the whole bag out. It seems that Klinger is now outsourcing some of their gear most likely from India or China as they are now too small to create a seal and are useless. We sourced after market ones yesterday and will continue to do so.
    A bit sad when the aftermarket ones are actually useable and not the maker supplied ones, with their name moulded into them as well.
    I'm sure the shareholders are enjoying the money they are making from the savings in amount of rubber used.

    Phil

  13. #838
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    Back onto the hydrostatic lubricators, this time the one off the Ruston engine that drives the beam pump.
    A couple of new bits and fresh packing for the glasses and it should be right to go.
    Setting the safety valves on the Roberts boiler in the morning, hopefully all goes well.

    Phil
    IMG_7319.JPG IMG_7321.JPG IMG_7345.JPG IMG_7346.JPG IMG_7351.JPG IMG_7353.JPG IMG_7354.JPG IMG_7356.JPG IMG_7358.JPG IMG_7360.JPG IMG_7364.JPG

  14. #839
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    Nice work Phil, one little problem, it doesn't match the patina of the rest of it. Needs sand blasting and some dirt rubbed into it.
    Kryn

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Nice work Phil, one little problem, it doesn't match the patina of the rest of it. Needs sand blasting and some dirt rubbed into it.
    Kryn
    Hi Kryn
    I look at it this way, my bits are correct, the rest is just old looking. Don't worry, noone else falls for it either.
    There was another little valve that needed replacing as well but the handle had snapped off so I have no idea what it looked like originally. As much as I search, I can't find a pic of an original.
    The lubricator is made by 'The Vacuum lubricator company' from 'The Albany' in England. If anyone has some pics...

    Phil
    IMG_7370.jpg IMG_7375.jpg IMG_7376.JPG IMG_7377.JPG IMG_7381.JPG IMG_7385.JPG IMG_7391.JPG IMG_7392.JPG IMG_7393.jpg

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