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  1. #1
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    Default Muzzle loading pistols.

    What is the legislation with regard to making muzzle loading pistols?

  2. #2
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    Athelstone, SA 5076
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    Not sure for others states, but I guess it would be similar as SA

    In SA it is against the law unless your a gunsmith...one cant even do certain repairs on a anothers gun unless they are gunsmith..can do you own but not others.

  3. #3
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    I do not know SA laws, but if they are like laws elsewhere in the country expect them to be vague and full of areas that looks like the hair of an eighty year old (all grey).

    The only way to cover yourself would be to get written advice from the government department responsible for handling firearm laws.

    I am pretty sure the police would not hesitate to send you to court to test out the laws on what they think they mean.

    In Qld I read some think the law is worded that it is illegal for a firearm owner to clean his firearms as they are not gunsmiths and only gunsmiths are allowed to perform maintenance.

    But then there was the person in Qld who built his own action complete except for threading for the barrel and that was fine apparently.

    Although a now deceased fella in the UK went a bit too far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhGCRIQnCA
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post

    Although a now deceased fella in the UK went a bit too far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhGCRIQnCA
    That was his mistake..he got caught

  5. #5
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    Bummer, I've always had an interest in muzzle loaders. Same story with crossbows, illegal unless you are in an archery club, no archery clubs in Adelaide have crossbows.

    Have to stick to slingshots I guess - as long as they aren't forearm braced.

  6. #6
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    Wodonga Vic
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    In South Australia (at least it was a few years back) hunting is a genuine reason to possess a crossbow, no license required.

    refer to schedule 2 below.

    In South Australia, the Summary Offences Act, 1953 declares that crossbows are "Prohibited Weapons".
    In particular (these are extracts from the Act as at 1 April, 2013, so it would pay to check the legislation is still current):
    21F—Prohibited weapons
    (1) A person who—
    (a) manufactures, sells, distributes, supplies or otherwise deals in, prohibited weapons; or
    (b) uses or has possession of a prohibited weapon,
    is guilty of an offence.
    Maximum penalty: $20 000 or imprisonment for 2 years.
    (2) It is a defence to prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) to prove that the defendant was, in accordance with—
    (a) Schedule 2; or
    (b) a declaration made by the Minister under subsection (3),
    an exempt person in the circumstances of the alleged offence.
    Schedule 2 provides, amongst other things:
    "9—Sport and recreation
    A person is an exempt person for the purposes of an offence of use or possession of a prohibited weapon under section 21F(1)(b) of this Act if the person uses or has possession of a prohibited weapon in the course of participating in a lawful and recognised form of recreation or sport that reasonably requires the use or possession of the weapon."
    In addition, the sale of crossbows is limited to approved manufacturers and retailers (and, once a crossbow is purchased by an individual, that person is prohibited from re-selling it).
    The sale, distribution or supply to, or dealing in crossbows with, a person who is under the age of 18 years is prohibited.
    Please note Section 21F (14) states "A person (being a person who is otherwise entitled to do so) must not use or have possession of a prohibited weapon unless he or she does so in a safe and secure manner." This implies that crossbows must also be stored securely when not in use.

    This shop has a nice range of crossbows, https://www.archeryacademy.com.au/in...c1768a829bdd9?

    my personal favorite are the Canadian made Excalibur crossbows.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Mornington Peninsula
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacc51 View Post
    Have to stick to slingshots I guess - as long as they aren't forearm braced.
    Slingshots are illegal in Victoria.

  8. #8
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    Dec 2005
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    As said above crossbows are not illegal in SA you just have to have a legitimate use such as hunting, no requirement to be a member of a club, there are clubs in SA that cater for crossbows.
    in SA muzzle loading pistols are covered by the regulation as any other handgun

  9. #9
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    Just to muddy the waters:

    Acts Imperial Application Act 1980 (VIC)
    7. That the subjects which are protestants, may have arms fortheir defence suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law.

    All the other States have this Imperial Law in their Acts.

    My understanding is that being an Imperial Law, it has been brought into Australia through one of the sections of the Australian Constitution and cannot be repealed except by the Privy Council (UK). Although I stand to be corrected on this.

  10. #10
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    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacc51 View Post
    What is the legislation with regard to making muzzle loading pistols?
    First off, a muzzle loading pistol is a firearm -- which are defined as a gun or other weapon that is or was at any time, capable of propelling a projectile by means of an explosive and includes blank fire firearms and air guns
    so anything that looks like it might be capable of propelling a projectile is also a firearm

    if you have a "genuine reason" you can get a licence to own and use a muzzle loading pistol -- making them is a bit harder.

    if you want to make a muzzle loader, including making objects that look like a firearm you will need to be licensed as a firearms dealer or a firearms club's armourer. So find a club that shoots muzzle loaders, join and become its armourer.
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  11. #11
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    Not sure of SA legislation but in Tas it's not sufficient to have a dealers license.

    You need to specifically have a manufacturers licence. To my knowledge, no one in Tas has a manufacturers license. A dealer friend was looking into manufacturing custom actions and essentially, it was impossible to get the approvals.

  12. #12
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    Mackay North Qld
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    Firstly to correct some misconceptions :

    I have been shooting black powder firearms since 1991 and never heard of some of this stuff

    I am a member of 2 two Qld. clubs, and am a guest at another where I shoot muzzle loader rifles.
    Two of them are a SSAA clubs. Some shooters do their own maintenance and adjustment on their rifles.
    Are there any members who are Muzzle loaders in the other states.I would love to have a talk about this.

    Certainly there are things that some leave to a gunsmith-like trigger adjustment for instance for the new blokes.
    Many of our guns have double set triggers. Due to the rigid sets of procedures developed by the SSAA for firing the various classes of firearms-No one,I say again -NO ONE, has ever been accidentally killed by a firearm on a SSAA range since the first day of SSAA shooting. A trained range officer is present at all shoots and will shut down a shoot instantly if theres a safety problem detected.

    Mind you,there has been "normal injuries"broken arms,legs,people step on glass ,scratches by barbed wire, that sort of stuff.

    If working on our muzzle loading guns here in Qld were not legal do so it would not happen. No SSAA club would dare risk it upon pain of closure. It appears things may be different in other states.There is a guide if anyone is looking for it is the Muzzle loading SSAA rule book. There is nothing there to prohibit this. NOTE this will be totally different to other club disciplines as they are based on shooting smokeless high speed powder-see below.

    Some points to make here :

    A . Muzzle loaders are dirty guns and produce a lot of carbon which the shooter may need to clean out of various assemblies such as the locks and trigger assemblies and then re re oil and re assemble. It is all allowed and happens in a special area.This area named the Fumble zone-isolated from the shoot benches and NO AMMO ALLOWED-(in our case powder and caps).

    B. Black powder is low pressure, it burns slow rather than explodes. Barrels were made from iron - and today muzzle loader barrels in the main are pretty much the equivalent and no accidents happen until some richard head decides to load smokeless high speed powder in lieu of black powder. Barrels then explode and badly injure people.

    C. New people joining our muzzle loading group despite having completed a license, are observed, helped and guided to ensure are safe and act safely in their formative "newby" period.

    To answer the OP's inquiry.It is possible here in Qld. buy a kit of parts and build a gun if you are licensed appropriately- the barrel is the tricky part as it bears the serial number-it is considered to be the action- and a permit to import is necessary and it must be ordered via a gunsmith and you must have a Cat H license. Legislation in your state may say other wise.

    A few I know have built long guns this way but I am not yet aware of pistol build. The various states weapons branches are really twitchy about concealable firearms and when I held a Black Powder pistol license all things pertaining were just another level harder to comply with.This will have some bearing on building a pistol as you can bet if it is possible it won't be easy.

    I suggest that contact is made with the nearest SSAA branch - most have a website now- and they will direct your inquiry to the right people who will supply you the information pertinent to your state.Those who shoot muzzle loaders locally to you in your state will be able to offer the best advice which may be slightly different to what goes on in Qld.



    Thanks

    Grahame

  13. #13
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    formerly from Sydney (north of The Harbour), NSW, Oz
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    In NSW, a muzzle loading musket or rifle is a Category B firearm, also known as a longarm. Muzzle loading pistols are Category H.

    The same categories apply in Queensland
    Category B weapons
    a) a muzzle-loading firearm;

    Category H weapons
    (1) A firearm, including an air pistol and a blank-fire firearm, under 75 cm in length ... is a category H weapon, regardless of whether it has been rendered permanently inoperable;
    For schedule 2 of the Act, each of the following comprises a class of category H weapon—
    (a) an air pistol;
    (b) a centre-fire pistol with a calibre of not more than .38 inch or a black-powder pistol;

    From elsewhere within the Queensland Firearms information
    A black-powder pistol is a firearm that:

    • is less than 75 cm in length
    • is either a muzzle loading firearm or a cap and ball firearm; and
    • does not accept cartridge ammunition.​


    Given the national uniformity of firearm regulations, SA will be substantially the same.


    Don't attempt to make a firearm unless your are licensed to possess and use the type of firearm and also have the appropriate approvals to "manufacture" and "maintain" it.
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  14. #14
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    Athelstone, SA 5076
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    From the current SA Firearms ACT which basically means that one cannot manufacture a gun or parts. A license holder of his/her particular firearm is is allowed to make a part for his/her own gun...but not someone elses...(and this includes doing a re-crown of someones elses barrel...might even include allowing someone to use ones lathe to do it...I refer to clause 37. 2. a. which refers to participating in a step to manufacture)

    Part 7—Prohibited practices relating to firearms and ammunition

    37—Manufacture of firearms, firearm parts or sound moderators
    (1) Subject to this section, a person is guilty of an offence if the person manufactures a firearm, firearm part or sound moderator.
    (2) If a person manufactures a firearm, firearm part or sound moderator in contravention of subsection (1), the following persons are each guilty of an offence:
    (a) a person who knowingly took, or participated in, a step, or caused a step to be taken, in the process of manufacture of the firearm, firearm part or sound moderator;
    (b) a person who knowingly provided or arranged finance for a step in the process of manufacture of the firearm, firearm part or sound moderator;
    (c) a person who knowingly provided the premises in which a step in the process of manufacture of the firearm, firearm part or sound moderator was taken, or allowed a step in the process of manufacture of the firearm, firearm part, or sound moderator to be taken in premises of which the person was an owner, lessee or occupier or of which the person had care, control or management.
    (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—
    (a) the manufacture by a person of a firearm or firearm part in accordance with a licence held by the person; or
    Firearms Act 2015—18.7.2017
    Part 7—Prohibited practices relating to firearms and ammunition
    44 This version is not published under the Legislation Revision and Publication Act 2002 [27.7.2017]
    (b) the manufacture by a person of a sound moderator with the written approval of the Registrar, provided the person complies with any limitations or conditions prescribed by the regulations or imposed by the Registrar.
    (4) It is a defence to a charge of an offence under subsection (1) or (2) to prove that, in the case of a firearm part—
    (a) the firearm part was for a firearm registered in the name of the person who manufactured the firearm part; or
    (b) —

    (i) the firearm part was for a firearm registered in the name of a company of which the person who manufactured the firearm part was an officer or employee; and
    (ii) the officer or employee was the holder of a licence authorising possession of the firearm; and
    (iii) the firearm part was manufactured by the officer or employee in the course of his or her duties as an officer or employee of the company.
    (5) The maximum penalty for an offence under this section is as follows:
    (a) in the case of a firearm or firearm part—
    (i) if the firearm is a prescribed firearm or the firearm part is a firearm part for a prescribed firearm—$75 000 or imprisonment for 15 years;
    (ii) if the firearm is a category C, D or H firearm or the firearm part is a firearm part for a category C, D or H firearm—$50 000 or imprisonment for 10 years;
    (iii) if the firearm or firearm part is any other kind of firearm or firearm part—$35 000 or imprisonment for 7 years;
    (b) in the case of a sound moderator—$35 000 or imprisonment for 7 years.

  15. #15
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    You are exactly right eskimo . You can't allow anyone to make a part for a gun of any definition on your lathe or machinery and you can't lend anyone any tool to do the same at their place knowing what they are doing and you can't legally tell anyone how to do it . Many forum members on other forums tread a thin line when they explain how to make a certain firearm part , to another person . What is the exact definition of a " Step " . I would say any action verbal or physical whatsoever that knowingly assists the manufacture .
    The volume of a pizza of thickness 'a' and radius 'z' is given by pi z z a.

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