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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Default ER32 collet adaptor for Hercus 260

    Hi Everyone,

    I am looking to get one of these from Mal. He needs minimum order to run another batch. If anyone is interested please put your name down. Hopefully he will be able to run another batch if he has enough order.
    Hercus 260 ER32 collet chuck

    1)Jackaroo
    2)Picko


    Thanks,
    Trong

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NSW
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    177

    Default

    I'm in if the price is around what's given there (plus post of course).
    Thanks John

  3. #3
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    Jun 2013
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    Tasmania
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    I've been tempted to get one for the 9" but only now just realised they are out of stock.

    I think for $128 they are a pretty good buy. I currently use a MT3 Er32 collet chuck in the headstock but the ability to slide stock right through would be a huge advantage. I use my ER32 collets a lot when machining small stuff. The ability to take things out of the chuck and put them back in is an excellent feature of collet use.

    So, if some more 9" ones were to surface again I think I would be interested. These would be infinitely better than any attempt to make one that I would produce.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Sydney
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    Mal's gear is always first class and very good value for money in my opinion. However if he doesn't get enough takers to make it worth his while, consider making your own. Make up a dummy spindle so you can check the fit and then start by boring and threading the back. Reverse it and thread it on to the spindle to finish the ER taper and thread. Here is one I made. Because it was made on the same lathe it's used on it's very accurate. I use it often and think an ER32 or ER40 collet chuck is an essential piece of kit. Apart from the accuracy, it normally won't mar or crush finished or thin material. I use bearing nuts, which I've found are more accurate and tighten more easily.

    ER32 Collet Chuck.jpgER32 Collet Chuck 2.jpg

  5. #5
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    Yes, Mal adaptor looks nice.

    I have the dummy that I made for the baking plate. I might make one for now. Did you use toolpost grinder to turn the taper for the collet Peter?

    Regards,
    Trong20160728_191527.jpg20160728_191547.jpg

  6. #6
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    No I just single pointed it, but the finish was fine, you may just be able to make it out in the second photo. Not so fine at the time was the top slide, as that was before I scraped it in. It was rocking and rolling all over the place and was dreadful to operate. However I found if I kept pressure on the compound with one hand so it was pushed against one of the dovetails, and wound the handle r-e-a-l-l-y carefully with the other hand, the taper would be consistent. It was fiddly and a PIA at the time because of all the slop in the top slide. Words were said about Mr Hercus. Many of them were very rude! However I got there in the end and the result was spot on. It was the impetus to finally scrape that slide however, and I don't have these fun and games anymore when doing similar work.

    The only other notable thing about it is that regardless of whether you have a metric or an imperial lathe, one of the two threads won't be native to your machine. In my case the lathe is metric, so it was the internal spindle thread. Of course Otherwise it's a good little project and I enjoyed making it. Precision tapers are always a challenge, but nothing a sharpie, a dial indicator, and plenty of patience can't solve, and it's nice when it all works out.

    Having said all that, I wouldn't take anything away from Mal's wares. As I said, I think the prices he asks for accessories are extremely reasonable, and sometimes our Roundtoits become rather bloated when it comes to making things like this. If anyone was thinking of just buying one I think they would be pleased they did as mine gets used constantly.

    Incidentally, the ER32 is already very accurate, but a tip if you want REALLY accurately chucked parts (assuming the part itself is accurate enough) is to indicate the piece in, and lightly tap on the collet chuck's nut​ at the high point. NOT the piece but the nut. It will move the collet around about half a poofteenth within the taper, and it's possible to get immeasurable runout even with a 0.002 mm DTI. I first read about this a couple of years back and didn't believe it, but tried it on a few different collet chucks and sure enough it works. Go figure!

  7. #7
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    Thanks Peter.

    My Hercus has metric lead screw but imperial spindle nose thread. 12 tpi from memory.

    Yes, Mal unit is cheap, and most of the stuff he is selling is way too cheap! he is only trying to get the Hercus scene going. I would still get one when he has the unit available.

    Regards,
    Trong

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackaroo View Post
    My Hercus has metric lead screw but imperial spindle nose thread.
    I have the same problem Trong. It's a shame really because it would be a good little project. I had planned on getting someone with an imperial lathe to cut the thread and then do the rest myself, rather than buying the gears to do the threading. I will get one from Mal if they become available.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2016
    Location
    New South Wales
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    Here are an ER16 version, an ER32 type, and a special non-ER version all made for me by Pipeclay. They were for use on an Hercus 9" Model C. I do not know if Pipeclay is still making these.

    Hercus Peter 20141203 er16.jpg

    Hercus Peter 20141203 er32a.jpg

    Hercus Peter 20141203 2mm chuck.jpg

    Hercus ER16 and wooden dowel_135.jpg

    Hercus ER32 and brass rod_137.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picko View Post
    I have the same problem Trong.
    That may not be an issue. You may be able to get the exact thread (or very close to), even with a metric lathe ... just depends on change gears and QC gearbox ratios, etc.

    Also the thread is not (normally) the critical mounting surface on a spindle nose.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  11. #11
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    Welcome to the forum Donaldo.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Southern Highlands NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    Also the thread is not (normally) the critical mounting surface on a spindle nose.
    That's not the case, Vernon. Unlike some other lathes that have close-fitting registers, Hercus relies on the the thread to centre whatever is screwed onto it.
    It's certainly the case on both my Hercus lathes, which still have their original chucks and faceplates. The unthreaded part of the holes within them is bigger than the plain sections on their spindles, so cannot have any effect.

    Going farther to the left along the spindle, the flat face surface is crucial to be accurate, for this is what works in conjunction with the thread, which must obviously have some clearance, to pull up the chuck to its correct, repeatable position when they make contact and are lightly tightened. The flat face on the chuck must similarly be true, perpendicular to axis.

    Seems there's different approaches among various lathe makers. I think an advantage of the way Hercus did it, and I guess the original South Bend and the other copies, is that it's less likely to jam. And it means something you buy later will be an accurate fit, as there's no risk of a register being too tight. Also, it's cheaper to make that way. Disadvantage is that a damaged thread could in theory make for loss of accuracy. But I've never seen one so bad you could see thread damage. Maybe someone else has?

    Jordan

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Griffith NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadroj View Post
    Maybe someone else has?
    I had a couple of 260's that needed threads to be recut after years of abuse, not so much that the accuracy was affected, but it got to the point where it was making chucks harder to put on and off, even if they were clean as a whistle. I dont think you could get to the point where the thread damage is bad enough to affect accuracy without making it more or less impossible to screw on a correctly made back plate. But then, there are people out there who ignore just how tight a thread has gotten and think its normal to need a spanner to "install" a chuck (ie, its on if its tight, who cares if it made it to the register).

  14. #14
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    The thread pitch on the lathe spindle both does and doesn't affect accuracy. It's true that it needs to be centred, but the thread pitch won't affect that, only the fact that it's cut correctly. On the other hand the precise thread pitch won't affect accuracy, and the thread simply pulls the chuck up against the register.

    In theory you could cut an incorrect thread pitch and have it loose, yet have it register ok. In practice I don't like your chances. In the workshop I have this page printed and laminated, and refer to it reasonably often Pitch Conversions threads per inch TPI pitch in inches and pitch in mm for taps and dies

    As you can see, the closest metric pitch to the 8 tpi of the spindle thread is probably 3 mm, that equates to around 8.5 tpi, and for the length of the spindle threads I think that would always bind, regardless of how loose you cut it.

    Having a transposing gear set is always a very handy thing to have, as sooner or later you will need to cut non-native threads. The 260 doesn't use a perfect translation (127) as the gear is too big to close the covers, and instead uses an approximation with a smaller gear. The upside is that it makes the gear somewhat cheaper to produce. Mal also sells them, and would be a very worthwhile addition to the lathe, if not essential IMHO.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    The thread pitch on the lathe spindle both does and doesn't affect accuracy. It's true that it needs to be centred, but the thread pitch won't affect that, only the fact that it's cut correctly. On the other hand the precise thread pitch won't affect accuracy, and the thread simply pulls the chuck up against the register.
    By register, I take that to mean the flat face that the chuck butts up against.
    How would just tightening up against it make the chuck centralised?
    A thread cannot work without clearance.
    Something must be pulling the chuck into alignment despite the clearance. Is there doubt that it's the angled flank of the thread?
    I'm assuming the same pitch on both the spindle and chuck, of course.

    Jordan

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