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Thread: hercus bed regrinds
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18th Jul 2016, 03:25 PM #16New Member
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- Apr 2016
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- Glen Waverley
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Update
With my bed now back home it's time to try and fix the other worn out bits.
1st challenge is to refit the saddle. My saddle had about a 20 thou (by feel) step worn into the V groove faces. The plan was to clean up the faces in the mill before hand scraping for final fitting. Setting the job up in the mill proved difficult as the the head stock end of the V grooves had a lot more wear than the tail stock end.
In the end the alignment of the cuts was a bit of a guess. I measured from the front face of the mill table to the various points along the dovetail for the cross slide as one set of references. As my dovetail has a thou or two wear plus dents I averaged out the measurements and had a best guess at the alignment. Then I ran the dial indicator down all four faces of the V grooves. Again I averaged the measurement and worked out how much and which direction to rotate the job with careful taps to get the alignment I think was right. In the photo you can see 2 dial indicators. This was done to determine how much the job turned with the taps. you can also see I mounted the job a 3 points. I thought the casting was stiff enough not to need any support under the ends of the V grooves. I also ran the dial gauge align the upper face of the job to make sure it was flat against the table.
I stuffed around for 4-5 hours before I was happy. Luckily Mal has told me there's plenty of saddles available so if I've stuffed this one I can order another.
IMAG1120[1].jpgIMAG1127[1].jpgIMAG1124[1].jpg
Tooling proved tricky as well.I couldn't use anything bigger than a 5/8 end mill as bigger cutter would have hit the casting near the holes for the rear clamp. Ideally I should have used a cutter with a slight radius
but I didn't have one. So now I've got a another V groove in the slot between the faces of the V grooves. It's only about 8 thou deep I think.
The point I forgot to mention was establishing the distance between centres of the V grooves. I just measures the distance between the slots in the valley of each V groove. I measured the distance between the centres of the V Grooves as 130.12mm.
I'll be interesting to see what others find.
I had to got down 20 thou to clean up the faces.Last edited by JR32; 18th Jul 2016 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Improve description of measuring v goove centre
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18th Jul 2016, 06:47 PM #17Most Valued Member
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- sydney ( st marys )
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You might find it is 5.125", I understand that a lot of people wish to work in metric but if you can use imperial you may find it a lot easier when checking dimensions of a Hercus most things are fractions.
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21st Aug 2016, 12:53 PM #18New Member
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- Apr 2016
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- Glen Waverley
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- 4
IMAG1144[1].jpg
I'm still working on rebuild. Weeks ago I finished painting all the bit. See photo above.
I've also blued up the bed and checked the saddle for contact. Not too bad. You'll notice the lack of contact on the apron side of the saddle. I suspect the sides of the end mill weren't completely parallel. Using a bit of plasti guage I measure the gap at about 1-1.5 thou. I've been scraping away to fix this. I'll post some update pictures soon.
IMAG1153[1].jpgIMAG1152[1].jpg
With my bed 8 thou was ground off it. I also had to cut down 20 thou on the saddle to get to the bottom of the wear. As a result I needed to pack the gearbox and rack that the apron engages. I ended up using feeler strip. I'm not expecting 1 or 2 thou to be too critical so I just went and order 28thou feeler strip and attacked it with a small grinder. Photos below.
IMAG1170[1].jpgIMAG1169[1].jpgIMAG1161[1].jpg
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22nd Aug 2016, 12:24 PM #19Most Valued Member
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- Oct 2007
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I missed this thread previously, but thought it was a cracker deal arranged by Mal. Well done Mal! A lot of people periodically look at regrinding their Hercus beds, as I myself did in the early days, however it's generally not economically viable to do so as a one off. At least in my opinion anyway. 300 bucks plus change is an awesome deal. I still have one lathe that's sitting there awaiting rebuild as a project (because I can't just get enough projects. Apparently!). The Biax makes pretty short work of taking off even quite a lot of material, but it would definitely give me food for thought toe just have it re-ground. I guess the only downside is the serial numbers would no longer match?
Richard I know this is old news by now, but I'm curious as to why you felt the headstock would need to be re-scraped? The bed under the headstock is absolutely pristine, and if the bed has been ground properly the angles should all remain unchanged, just a bit lower. I do agree that it "should" be checked, but it should only be a check (as much to confirm there's nothing sitting under the headstock etc), and no adjustment should be required. It would unfortunately require a morse taper test bar to do so, and is virtually the only time that type of test bar is actually required.
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22nd Aug 2016, 12:59 PM #20Pink 10EE owner
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- Aug 2008
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- near Rockhampton
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The angles won't remain the same Pete. They don't have to be and they will just be an approximation. If the tailstock ways have not been bought down a uniform amount then the headstock will be sitting at a different angle, which means nothing other then it is not going to be seated the same as when it came off. All depends on the grinder hand and the job they did.
Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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22nd Aug 2016, 09:53 PM #21Most Valued Member
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Ok. I thought they would take all the ways down by a uniform amount. But I guess it would only ever be approximately the same in precision terms. I would think if the ways were taken down a different amount, the angle would be the same, just at a different level so yes I can see that the HS and TS wouldn't align. I guess not such an issue if the TS ways were higher as you could just scrape the TS down. Not so good if it were the other way around.
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5th Oct 2016, 10:33 PM #22australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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- 73
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- 490
Will now be offering a full regrind and scrape of the bed, saddle, crosslide, compound and tailstock base for around $600.
Mal
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5th Oct 2016, 11:36 PM #23Most Valued Member
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- May 2011
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Mal, is that scrape the bed or scrapping of the bed????
To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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6th Oct 2016, 09:15 AM #24australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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6th Oct 2016, 10:05 AM #25Pink 10EE owner
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- Aug 2008
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- near Rockhampton
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No idea how they can do it for that sort of money.
Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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6th Oct 2016, 11:23 AM #26australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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- 73
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- 490
He does it for that to support the Australian made brand because he doesn't want to see them die, as I do, and finds the work rewarding. if it was strickly a commercial deal you could double that.
SOAP BOX TIME AGAIN (RC, this is a general comment, it is not aimed at you)
About time a few others got behind the process and joined the re-manufacturing group. We have retired owners whose lifetime of experience is going to waste, you don't get rich but it adds a little to the pension and is a useful rewarding contribution to support an Australian made machinery icon. This has never been about huge financial profits for AMH, just enough to keep it going and add a little to my retirement income as well. So far everything is being done by 4 people, we need lots more (toolmakers, machinists, etc) if everything is going to be finished. We don't ask anyone to dip into their pockets, just give us the use of you experienced labour at a nominal hourly rate. Have a little pride in your Australian heritage and pitch in.
Mal
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16th Oct 2016, 08:25 PM #27australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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I need to do these four at a time as a minimum(currently have two), that means multiples of 4 as they go on the way grinder four at a time. Therefor they will do 4,8 or 12 and so on. Bare in mind it has to be fitted in between the rest of their jobs so expect to be without your machine for 4-6 weeks from the time I recieve it. I would suggest if you are doing a full restoration that the cleaning( well done please) and painting would best be done before you send the parts, don't slop paint over the areas to be ground. Plan to send your parts in two ply boxes, one for the bed and another for the saddle, crosslide, compound and tailstock base, this will reduce your freight bill considerably. Sydney metro members may drop off and pick up their beds from me if they wish. You should leave the gibs and screws in the slides but nothing else. If you are still unsure of the process give me a call.
Mal 0438466008
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4th May 2017, 01:58 PM #28australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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- 73
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- 490
I need to put some Hercus beds and saddles in for regrinding, anyone want one done. price will be about $450.
Mal
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8th May 2017, 01:40 PM #29australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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- 73
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I have a window available for regrinding on the 1st of june for beds and saddles. They will need to be delivered to me by the 31st of May at the latest. Price is $460. Beds and saddles need to be stripped of all fittings (feet, rack etc) and cleaned of all dirt, oil and swarf etc. If you want to be involved ring me on 0438466008. This applies to all standard vee bed Hercus 9", Hercus 260, Sherton 9" and South Bend 9".
Mal
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6th Jun 2017, 02:11 PM #30australian metalworking hobbyist
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- Jan 2009
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- Holbrook, NSW
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- 73
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- 490
Due to the late delivery of one of the beds by the freight company, we have lost the window allocated by the grinding company. The grinding of the existing beds, saddles, etc has been moved to the 10th July. That being the case I can still accept new commissions. They will need to arrive here before that date or miss out. I can accept any of the South Bend Clones triple vee beds of a similar size to the Hercus 9 and 260's.
Mal
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