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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Toowoomba Qld
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    401

    Default It's time, I need a trailer! add another job to the list...

    okay, firstly I will admit I don't know all that much about trailers so will be looking for as much help as I can get.

    I have been thinking for a while that I needed to get a trailer, went to grab some angle iron for another project only to be told I needed a trailer or ute / roof racks as I'm not allowed to transport it inside the cabin of the car with me. That was the final straw, I need to get me a trailer.

    Off to gumtree / ebay I went, seems to be a heap of new ones, some crap used ones and not much in between. Went for a drive today to look at one that was never used but about 14 months old. Apparently 8x5 trailers are not a true 8x5 anymore! 8x5 in metric should be 2438mm x 1524mm, I don't expect exact to the mm but they are more like 2400mm x 1530mm. This is a problem as I occasionally pick up some "packing boards" from the local cabinet makers for general woodwork projects that are 2420x1220, really a case of missed it by that much. So unless something pops up locally for sale before I get around to it, I am planning to make a trailer.

    Must haves / wish list
    - true 8x5 size (or a little bit longer is fine)
    - must be single axle 750kg ATM so can just do self assessment, ect
    - prefer high sides, maybe 450mm but not set in stone
    - ability to take a cage, prefer with SHS corner posts
    - would like tilt / low loader
    - tie downs in the floor pan

    Intended uses
    - dump runs
    - transporting motorbikes
    - taking camping
    - getting stock for projects, steel, wood, ect
    - getting dirt / sand / ect for the garden
    - moving machinery

    Now the trailer I quite often borrow has been converted to a tipper trailer, it's great but still a bit of a pain. I have got machinery / heavy items delivered on a tilt tray prior and loved being able to just roll up with the trolley jack and wheel whatever straight off. After some internet searching I have found a style I think I want to build. This is used primarily for car trailers but think it would work also, would make it awesome even for moving a fridge for example with just a hand trolley.

    There are two iterations shown by Futura Trailers
    This looks to be V1


    And this is V2


    V2 looks more appealing as I don't have to worry about clearance with a cage, ect. I also like how the sides have been done as I don't have a metal brake to be able to bend the side sheets. I can cut them with an angle grinder but can't bend them.

    I have tig welder, milling machine, lathe, ect all at my disposal so think while it may take some time this is a doable project. Has anyone built one like this before or able to point me in direction of where I can find specs like recommended material sizes ?
    Also where is the best place to get the suspension / axles / wheels / ect ?

    Thanks in advance
    Wayne

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
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    64
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    4,887

    Default

    Have you considered a single axle caravan chassis, only down side is that it will have brakes but from your post you will only be carrying up to 500 kg's it would probably be a bit of over kill.
    Have you considered putting bars across your a trailer to take the oversize pieces.
    I us an old chassis and often carry pieces up to 8 metres in length and 2.2 wide.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Wayne, about 15+ years ago, there was a trailer called Ezytow around. it was designed to be towed behind any vehicle, primarily for vehicles to be towed that were broken down, or behind motor homes, with the drive wheels up off the ground. The design was very similar to the renegade, the "body" was lowered by winch cables hooked directly to the frame that held the axle assembly. After a few years the design was deemed dangerous, why exactly I do not know. The winch was mounted at the front, with an eye at the end of the cable/strap, another cable was threaded through the eye, then through a roller on each side about 50-75 mm above the location point at the end of the axle arm, which from memory was pivoted about a metre from the end of the axle arm with the axle in approximate centre. I can't remember if there was any sort of locking mechanism, or if it was just relying on the cables? Wouldn't take much to add something. Whether the registration authority will allow this, I don't know?
    There was NO suspension, relying only on the tyres.
    Remember, because you're not having brakes, that you are limited to 750 kg max, so heavy machinery will be a NO NO.
    This is all from memory, can try to draw up the workings for you if you'd like me to.
    Tried to find it on Google, but no luck, sorry.
    Should you decide to go ahead with this, I'd make the front and rear tail gates drop down, so that extra length can be accommodated. Tie downs in the floor won't really be a problem as they can be purchased from body builders suppliers (not Arny Swartzanigger type), just a matter of cutting a hole in the floor and bolting/welding it in.
    The sides don't need folding, use some 40 X 40 X 3 angle on the top edging, with the angle pointing down and out. The ends of the sides can be finished with 40 mm square tube to allow gates to be added. Prime the insides of the angle and sheet to prevent rusting. The tail gates, same principal.
    We have a trailer maker in Adelaide called Kessner Trailers, that's how they do theirs. PM me if you need more details.
    Regards
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Thanks for the replies so far, not overly keen on the idea of an old caravan chassis but thank you for the suggestion.

    I looked up Kessner Trailers and I can see how they finish theirs, kind of interesting and something I could look at doing. I wasn't planning on making the front removable but I can see benefits of doing it (at a later stage could also make an alternate front board with wheel chocks for the motorbikes)

    I'm still 50/50 on make or buy, would like to make one exactly how I want it, but also don't always have heaps of time and sometimes just throwing money at problems to make them go away helps. In my travels earlier this evening I found one that lists its dimensions as 2440 x 1525mm. I have emailed them asking to confirm exact specs. Will wait to see what they come back with. Who knows may even buy one, use it for a year so I don't have to rush to build one then just sell it if I end up building one. Any thoughts on this one Kryn or others that know their trailers
    Tradies Trailers.com

    Re moving heavy machinery, in Qld to register a 750kg max trailer is $130, a 1,500kg is $230. I can hire a bigger trailer or get a tilt tray once a year and still be about the same cost. That would only be for heavy machinery tho and anything up to about 500kgs I should be fine.

    Do you have any idea what the suspension setup on the Renegade would be ? It kind of looks like they just have a bit block mounted onto the leaf springs but surely that would twist like crazy as soon as you put any weight on it. I found a picture yesterday that I can't find now, was a independent leaf spring setup with a trailing arm and shockie, would take a bit longer to make but looked like it would work and lowish cost when compared to something like this Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System - 4" Lift Spindle - Regular Tires - 3,500 lbs Timbren Trailer Axles ASR3500S06

    Edit - found Pic
    fwcs-3.jpg

    Thanks again
    Wayne

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bungama SA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    960

    Default

    An 8x5 load of dirt is more than 750kg dry
    ....................................................................

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry72 View Post
    An 8x5 load of dirt is more than 750kg dry
    That is true harry, an 8x5x1 trailer is about 1.1 cubic meters
    One cubic meter of soil weights between 1.2 & 1.7 metric tonnes, much too heavy for anything short of a tandem axle trailer.
    Locally I can buy soil by either 1/3 cube or 1/2 cube so with something heavy like soil you just get a smaller load and do more loads.
    If however I was buying say Cypress Chip, load it up.
    Anything I can fit in a smaller trailer I can fit in a bigger trailer, doesn't work the other way around tho.

    Cheers
    Wayne

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bungama SA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    960

    Default

    What about a single cab tray back ute, carry 1200kg legally quite well(with suspension assistance) and the tray is bigger than a 8x5, my old ute's tray is 1850x2500.
    Thrown many a full sheet on the back of mine... even 3m sheets... then there's the ladder racks great for the 6m lengths of pvc/metal tubing.
    ....................................................................

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bungama SA
    Age
    52
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    960

    Default

    Oh and if your going camping two large swags fit just nice set up... and a much easier height too get in to as well after a few
    ....................................................................

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterSpoon View Post
    . Who knows may even buy one, use it for a year so I don't have to rush to build one then just sell it if I end up building one. Any thoughts on this one Kryn or others that know their trailers
    Do you have any idea what the suspension setup on the Renegade would be ? It kind of looks like they just have a bit block mounted onto the leaf springs but surely that would twist like crazy as soon as you put any weight on it. I found a picture yesterday that I can't find now, was a independent leaf spring setup with a trailing arm and shockie, would take a bit longer to make but looked like it would work and lowish cost when compared to something like this Timbren Axle-Less Trailer Suspension System - 4" Lift Spindle - Regular Tires - 3,500 lbs Timbren Trailer Axles ASR3500S06 Wayne
    Hi Wayne,
    As you're not really in a rush for the trailer, you could buy one, use it while making yours then flog it off later as you suggest. This is only a suggestion, a cheaper alternative, is that on the odd occasion that you need one , hire it. OK it's a hassle having to go and pick it up and returning it, you'll also have problem of storage and if it's used often enough it'll be dead money, but no one will be able to borrow it.
    I had a look on the Futura site and saw that they actually use a leaf spring, which totally amazed me as like you thinking it would twist with any sort of load on it. The only way I could think of to prevent this happening, is to use a main leaf spring of around 12 mm thick and about 50 mm wide, which would have to be a custom made set. Talk to a spring maker and see what they suggest to get around that problem.
    The independent system you mentioned, looks as if it would present the same problem, if you wanted to be able to drop the body?
    For what's involved and cost I would look at the Timbren system without the extra lift, as it looks a very sturdy simple unit.
    Regards
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    I plan on building a 6x4 single axle trailer with an ATM of 1600kg this year. I got the detailed plans from trailerplans.com on ebay for $35.

    The suspension will be independent which i will buy from huntsman products. The kit comes complete with suspension shocks bushes bearings electric brakes etc. Main use will off road use but i will also use to carry firewood (hence the heavy ATM)

    I may end up de-rating the trailer to say 1200kg as its a compromise between load carrying for firewood but also making it light as possible for off road use...

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toowoomba Qld
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    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    I plan on building a 6x4 single axle trailer with an ATM of 1600kg
    Can I ask what persuaded you to go a 6x4 with 1,200kg / 1,600kg ATM ?

    Seems like you will have the load capacity to carry most things but just not the space, you say it's primary for firewood but did a quick good search and it indicates depending on wood species, common firewoods vary from about 500 - 1000 kg/m³
    A 6x4x1(standard height) trailer is 24 cubic feet or about 0.68m³
    This would place a full load of wood around 340kg - 680kg.
    Of course you can either pile it on top or put a cage on for extra capacity but then you are still limited to the 6x4 size for other uses. Won't fit a queen bed to help move someone, probably too short for most lathe's, ect ect

    Regards
    Wayne

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

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    Hi Wayne. Dont plan on using it to fit a queen bed on. That seems a bit random. I have no intensions of helping anyone move and even if i did im not going to design a trailer for other peoples needs. Last time i used a trailer to transport machinery it was for a SG that weighed over a tonne an i hired a Bunnings trailer for $60. Like i said anything larger than a 6x4 bigger than i care to take on serious off road trips. I never went into the specific design of the trailer or its wall heights but i am confident when loaded with firewood, it will come close to its ATM with a full load.

    Cheers

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    429

    Default

    All these "inovative" trailer designs are beset with the same two problems ...... weight and cost.

    A properly constructed drop bed or tilting trailer will be consideably heavier than a conventional trailer ...... one thing that can very easily get out of hand is weight ..... I have had involvement in trailers that have either very poor legal load carrying capacity or are over the 750Kg before you even put something in them.

    If you want a light trailer, best to keep it simple and conventional.

    As for this independent suspension thing ...... most of the independednt suspension are ill concieved, geometically poor and provide no advantage over a properly designed leaf spring and beam axle design.

    the problem with most leaf spring designs is they use components from the trailer industry ..... if you take a leaf spring out of a similar load carrying vehicle and install it in the same attitude as it was in the donor vehicle with the shock absorbers designed for the springs it will outperform most independednt suspensions.

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Far West Wimmera
    Age
    63
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    4,049

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    the problem with most leaf spring designs is they use components from the trailer industry ..... if you take a leaf spring out of a similar load carrying vehicle and install it in the same attitude as it was in the donor vehicle with the shock absorbers designed for the springs it will outperform most independednt suspensions.
    What similar load carrying vehicle would you suggest? If you look at a 1600kg ATM then that would be a truck. Thats some massive springs. Long and higher than trailer springs. I tried to go this way with my trailer and I am not happy with the results. I plan on going back to trailer springs. The ones in at the moment are from a 4wd, but the trailer sits too high.

    I always laugh when I see people towing a trailer with neatly stacked wood just up to the top edge of a trailer. Waste of time. I have piled my trailer up as high as I can get it many times in the last couple of years. Of course I am only towing it around the property.

    Many years ago we ordered some firewood from an advertisement which seemed like a good deal. They came with a 6 x 12 trailer neatly stacked across the width and carefully backed into the driveway up to the gate to our backyard. I wondered how much of it wass ours. One single row! 6 x 1 x 1 ft. Needless to say I did not buy any more.

    Dean

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    4,779

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    Theres a reason why all the top off road trailers use independent suspension, its more supple and more progressive. Leaf springs are very reliable and provide many years of trouble free service but leaf sprungs rub over each other which creates a lot of friction opposing movement to the terrain. Coils are move and compress without this. Arguably one of the best off road suspension systems used is the MC2 assymetrical independent suspension designed by Track Trailer. Originally designed specifically for the military. They have been using it on their off road trailers for many years. You will not see ANY leaf sprung trailer out perform that. Of course its a wais tv of money if you dont use the trailer for off road use. If used purely for on bitumen and well graded gravel then leaf sprung trailer is fine.

    Strength and weight are always a battle. I bet many a homemade trailer and much heavier than they need to be.

    Simon


    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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