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  1. #1
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    Default Help me finish my traytop

    I ran out of steam on this a few years ago, but prompted by seanjfitz (Gravity tilt), I have taken a fresh look and decided it's worth finishing. I have some concerns about loading height and about wallowy suspension plus high CoG making it ill-mannered. But those fears may be unfounded. I can always sell it to finance something else.

    Below are some pics as it stands. Ignore the canopy, that's just there for storage (anyone want it?). The tray is not mounted; it came from a different vehicle.

    Decided:
    Chassis stays. Springs will be rebushed and shockers replaced.
    The axle/diff assy will be replaced with a trailer axle.
    I want to revise the drawbar anyway, so it might as well become a tilter.
    No active tip options are on the table at this stage, but could be added later.
    Brakes will hopefully be electric. Any experience with trailer-mounted controllers?

    Questions:
    Is it possible to rate springs purely from their dimensions etc? That will inform the overall rating to design for. I only know the donor was a Hilux 4x2 cab-chassis, probably 80s.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Hi Bryan, if you have a spring works near you, they could/should be able to work out the capacity of the springs, from memory the 4X2 Hilux had a capacity of around the 800kg mark. If no one near, try Industrial Springs on Port Rd they should be able to help. Should make for a nice project, at least you can fork load any other equipment you buy.
    Regards
    Kryn

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    at least you can fork load any other equipment you buy.
    Regards
    Kryn
    Or more likely, sell.
    Thanks, I'll give IS a call.

  4. #4
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    What are you likely to sell, so I can try to save money for it.
    Kryn

  5. #5
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    Default

    Gday Bryan. No idea what you want to use your trailer for but if you look at Gary Edwards` - 2002 Toyota Hilux Ute Tub into a Trailer header i discuss/pic how i built two of my trailers. Both only use leaf springs.No shockies albeit your chassis is somewhat heavier built. Anyways looking forward to seeing your creative juices bound into action.

  6. #6
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    Thanks OldGrain. I recall seeing that thread a while back but it was good to look over it again. That crane looks the goods and the mudguards you made for the other one tickle my fancy as well.

    Edit: What I was trying to say was that's the kind of free thinking and resourcefulness that's a bit inspirational.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    ..... from memory the 4X2 Hilux had a capacity of around the 800kg mark.
    You would think that would be easy enough to google but I've found it very difficult. Finally found a US site giving specs in pounds: http://www.toyoland.com/trucks/tacoma-hilux.html (scroll down to the table). No tare weight given for the cab-chassis but if you use the weights for the other two you get a difference of 963 or 940kg. The trailer will be lighter than the vehicle, and how much lighter you can't say without knowing the weight distribution of the vehicle. But it's looking promising for a 1 ton payload, which is my aim. But assessing the springs directly seems simplest and safest, and I will still seek expert advice.

  8. #8
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    Made some calls about springs. The two most helpful responses were from a trailer builder/inspector who said essentially "she'll be right mate". The other was from a spring maker who said springs were not considered as part of the inspection. It's axles, brakes, tyres and hitches that determine load ratings. The rest is discretionary. So you can fit whatever springs you like the look of, try em out and adjust as needed. <shrug> Works for me

    So I priced a 50 square, parallel bearing axle (1600kg), electric brakes and associated bits and there won't be any change from a grand. I might still price the next option down (1450?), but doubt I would save much. From there I just need steel, paint and time. And some advice.

    PS: Anyone want to hazard a guess on final tare? I hope under 500, but if it was say 350, 1450 ATM would be fine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Made some calls about springs. The two most helpful responses were from a trailer builder/inspector who said essentially "she'll be right mate". The other was from a spring maker who said springs were not considered as part of the inspection. It's axles, brakes, tyres and hitches that determine load ratings. The rest is discretionary. So you can fit whatever springs you like the look of, try em out and adjust as needed. <shrug> Works for me

    So I priced a 50 square, parallel bearing axle (1600kg), electric brakes and associated bits and there won't be any change from a grand. I might still price the next option down (1450?), but doubt I would save much. From there I just need steel, paint and time. And some advice.
    I would have thought that the springs would have been a part of the inspection as that supports the load. ie, a one leaf spring from a Morris Minor takes a load of 150kg, but you have a 1600 kg capacity axle, brakes, coupling etc, the capacity of the trailer is still 150kg????
    Sorry can't help with the $$, steel, paint or time but can help with advise.
    Kryn

  10. #10
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    My evil mind keeps finding ways to make things better - and harder to do. Like, if I'm going to this much trouble I might as well do it properly and.... So I was leaning towards building this to keep, but now I've changed my mind again. I want to assess the option of finishing it off with the minimum of effort and cost, getting it registered and flogging it off.

    I would appreciate opinions on two main issues. One is the way I've done the drawbar and whether that's adequate. But I'll need some better pics for that so watch this space. The other is the idea of keeping the existing axle/diff assembly. On the plus side it's kinda free, it's strong, and it has brakes. On the minus side it's heavy, may generate drag(?), and I don't know if the brakes will be suitable for a trailer MC. Does anyone know what the standard diameter is for trailer wheel cylinders?

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    I would have thought that the springs would have been a part of the inspection as that supports the load. ie, a one leaf spring from a Morris Minor takes a load of 150kg, but you have a 1600 kg capacity axle, brakes, coupling etc, the capacity of the trailer is still 150kg???? Sorry can't help with the $$, steel, paint or time but can help with advise. Kryn
    I thought the same Kryn, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the logic. I guess it's a question of where you draw the bureaucratic line between which bits are scrutinised and which aren't.

    And your advice will be most welcome. I've read enough of your posts to see that you have a few clues.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    My evil mind keeps finding ways to make things better - and harder to do. Like, if I'm going to this much trouble I might as well do it properly and.... So I was leaning towards building this to keep, but now I've changed my mind again. I want to assess the option of finishing it off with the minimum of effort and cost, getting it registered and flogging it off.

    I would appreciate opinions on two main issues. One is the way I've done the drawbar and whether that's adequate. But I'll need some better pics for that so watch this space. The other is the idea of keeping the existing axle/diff assembly. On the plus side it's kinda free, it's strong, and it has brakes. On the minus side it's heavy, may generate drag(?), and I don't know if the brakes will be suitable for a trailer MC. Does anyone know what the standard diameter is for trailer wheel cylinders?



    I thought the same Kryn, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the logic. I guess it's a question of where you draw the bureaucratic line between which bits are scrutinised and which aren't.

    And your advice will be most welcome. I've read enough of your posts to see that you have a few clues.
    Hi Bryan,
    Thanks for the compliment. Seeing you're going to flog it, I'd tidy the front, either get rid of the excess chassis or put a piece of RHS across the front (preferable). For the draw bar, I'd insert another section to join the drawbar onto the spring hanger, seems as it's something they like now days. If you're going to ask top dollar, I'd change the axle, (around the $150.00 mark, get Ford stud pattern, as that is the same as Toyota 2wd), but, if it's going for best offer, then leave it there. Why waste money that you're not going to get. I've seen a few trailers with rear axles in them anyway.
    From memory, the brake components used were Holden parts, slaves and master cylinder.
    Regards
    Kryn

  12. #12
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    I always intended to trim the rails back to the cross member and cap them. Taking the drawbar to the hangers I know is seen as good practice. But I do question that in this case, given that the chassis rails are 120 x 60, the drawbar is 100 x 50, and there's a mile of weld between them. I don't want to add weight just for appearances. Here's another way to frame the question: Is there anything here that might get knocked back? If I was going to go to the hangers I think I'd start with a new drawbar that goes there in a straight line.

    I'd like to know what people think about this method of attaching a drawbar. I did it on advice from someone I consider very cluey, but I haven't seen it elsewhere. He called it a doubling plate, sandwiched between two parts, which is welded to each part along its own axis, if that makes sense. See photos.

    Interesting to know that trailer brakes are essentially car parts. Don't know why I thought they wouldn't be. I will have to measure the wheel cylinder diameter and the master as well. Though I was also wondering about using the handbrake cables for a mechanical setup. Any reason that wouldn't work? I really don't like hydraulics on trailers.

    The rims are 6 stud, so I would get landcruiser pattern if I were changing the axle. But I'll see if I can avoid that. My assumption is I would have to buy brakes as well because my existing brakes wouldn't mate up to a trailer axle. But maybe I'm overthinking again.

    I found some old photos of the donor and it's a square headlight one, which makes it post 83, so knowing that will make it easier to get bits.

    I put the hitch on the scales and got about 37kg. Does that seem reasonable for an empty trailer? Sure feels heavy to me, but I'm used to a very light 6x4. I suppose it would be 10% of 370 so maybe that's ok. (Does the 10% thing apply when empty?)

    PS: Sorry, none of my image hosting options are working tonight.

  13. #13
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    Hi Bryan,
    There is no real need to extend the drawbar to the spring hangers, if you wanted to, there is nothing stopping you from putting an extra bit of RHS on the front, giving extra strength to the draw bar also.
    There is nothing too stop you from utilising the existing brakes on a new axle, if you wanted to. Take the drum and backing plate off the diff housing, remove the hub assembly from 1 side, make 2 axle backing plates to suit the ones you took off, slide your backing plates on and assemble the brakes and hub assy. Once everything is lined up correctly, weld the axle backing plates onto the axle.This is basically the same as how they do it in the places that make axles. Congratulations, you just save about $500, and have the choice of Hydraulic or cable operated brakes.
    Looking at the photos, I thought they were 5 stud which is why I said Ford stud pattern, I think I need new glasses.

    Kryn

  14. #14
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    Thanks Kryn, makes perfect sense. I will try again to attach the detail pics. Hoping to flush Yonnee out on this doubling plate thing, but he doesn't seem to be active these days?

    P1010686.jpg P1010685.jpg P1010683.jpg

  15. #15
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    Hi Bryan, thanks for the pics, now I know what you're talking about. Not really seen it done on small trailers, I think the idea is to spread the load over a larger area. As long as the welds are not on top of the drawbar, I don't see a problem with it.
    Regards
    Kryn

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