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  1. #1
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    Default Building a Mulch Trailer

    I'm tossing up building a much trailer to be used in an orchard and vineyard. Mulch is relatively light, about 300kg to the cubic metre, but you need heaps of it to do anything useful. That said, I don't want to go nuts, and there are restrictions on size (width) where it'll be used, which has had me come down to a 3m long design that'll hold about 3-4 cubic metres.

    The catch is emptying it. One option is making it a tipping trailer, which is kind of a known quantity and seems reasonably straightforward, but ideally, you want to be placing the mulch under the trees or vines, which usually requires a conveyor along the floor of the trailer, and then a conveyor pointing sideways to throw the material out. That aspect seems kind of challenging.

    Quick Sketchup of the hopper concept below. Any ideas?


    Mulch Trailer.jpg

  2. #2
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Unless you have a surplus of trailers one issue with that flopr shape is that it is pretty well useless for anything else. The partially sloping sides also means increased risk of falls when working inside the trailer. so I reckon you might be better off building a conventional trailer and adding removable higher sides. You could even add a removable sloping floor if you really wanted to. Like you said a bit more weight is not really an issue.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I'm tossing up building a much trailer to be used in an orchard and vineyard. Mulch is relatively light, about 300kg to the cubic metre, but you need heaps of it to do anything useful. That said, I don't want to go nuts, and there are restrictions on size (width) where it'll be used, which has had me come down to a 3m long design that'll hold about 3-4 cubic metres.

    The catch is emptying it. One option is making it a tipping trailer, which is kind of a known quantity and seems reasonably straightforward, but ideally, you want to be placing the mulch under the trees or vines, which usually requires a conveyor along the floor of the trailer, and then a conveyor pointing sideways to throw the material out. That aspect seems kind of challenging.

    Quick Sketchup of the hopper concept below. Any ideas?


    Mulch Trailer.jpg
    Hi Rusty, several questions,what size sheet metal can you get, and is there someone who can fold it? When I first started work we made grain storage units for bagging grain, that had no folded sections using 8 x 4 sheets. How do you propose to power the conveyors? Limiting/controlling the amount coming out? Is it necessary for the 600 wide bottom? Have you access to S/H augers, as these could be coupled together with gears/box to form a T, the ends of the T would require a left and right hand turning and you would be requiring only 1 hydraulic motor to drive it all, allowing you control to stop and start at will, and do both sides at once.
    If the join is at the centre bottom, using a conveyor would probably wear it out fairly quickly unless you had rollers or such underneath which would allow mulch to get under it all, causing problems.
    Regards
    Kryn

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Unless you have a surplus of trailers one issue with that flopr shape is that it is pretty well useless for anything else. The partially sloping sides also means increased risk of falls when working inside the trailer. so I reckon you might be better off building a conventional trailer and adding removable higher sides. You could even add a removable sloping floor if you really wanted to. Like you said a bit more weight is not really an issue.
    We've got plenty of trailers, including a tandem with a 3.7x1.8 tub that I'd use to transport this trailer (if I make it) so it would be made specifically for the task.

    As mentioned, making it a tipping unit so you could easily deposit the load in a pile or a line for subsequent spreading may prove to be the more realistic option, but I have been wondering how hard it would be to make a conveyer, and the amount of power required to move the material. I've got a lot more experience with electric drive, so would lean towards something involving electric motors, except that I suspect the amount of power required may mean hydraulics are the obvious choice, but they're hideously expensive...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Hi Rusty, several questions,what size sheet metal can you get, and is there someone who can fold it?
    Off hand I was thinking the sides would be folded out of 1.5mm gal sheet using a 3000x1200 sheet for each side, and then a thicker section for the 600 wide bottom. Ultimately there'd be a 40 or 50mm SHS frame around the thing. Folding's no problem, there's a couple of sheet metal places nearby who've done everything from routine colorbond flashing up to 3mm checkerplate for me.


    How do you propose to power the conveyors? Limiting/controlling the amount coming out? Is it necessary for the 600 wide bottom?
    As mentioned to Bob, I was kind of hoping I could use electric motors - I have access to some 12V x 150Ah exchange batts which would make a respectable 48V supply (I used the same setup to convert an old mobile cherrypicker to electric) but the gut feeling is that hydraulic motors might be more realistic, but also heaps more expensive.

    The 600 floor was based on providing reasonable capacity, as the sloping sides need to be 45 degrees or steeper or stuff doesn't slide.

    This page:
    http://www.seymourrural.com.au/secon...html#2nd-hand3
    has a range of similar machines with both chain and belt conveyors - I was hoping to build a much lighter-duty unit, and maybe less capable, but hopefully a lot cheaper.

  6. #6
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    Hi Rusty, is there anyone close by that has older farm machinery, a header for example, that you could rat a hydraulic motor that drove a large auger, may be the augers as well, from? A lot of farmers around here don't trade their old equipment in as they get nothing for it, and at times they rat it for parts etc. If you can't find anything let me know and I'll see what I can find, price wise.
    Kryn

  7. #7
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    Rusty, I worked in the transport industry for many years. The discharge method you’re describing is called a “walking floor” and they’re relatively popular in bulky light cargo such as waste collection (depot to landfill) or pine chips etc. I have no direct experience but seem to recall they were relatively high maintenance. Here’s a couple of links: http://www.lustyems.com.au/products/...r-medium-duty/
    http://www.hamelexwhite.com.au/produ...walking-floor/
    You may find more info using search terms around walking floor mechanisms, power required etc. Australian Native Landscapes may have some walking floor trailers http://anlscape.com.au/ Perhaps phone their workshop manager and have a chat?

    Very popular now are side-tipping trailers. Although they’re operated by hydraulics, in the old days tippers were often cable lifted, as in an independent lifting post raising the tipper body by cable over multiple pulleys. Another advantage is that you can empty them slowly and spread the load over distance.
    http://www.haulmore.com.au/semi-and-side-tippers
    http://www.howardporter.com.au/side-tippers
    http://www.barrystoodley.com.au/Semi...pers?Length=12

    A third option is an internal movable blade (full internal height & width of the trailer body) that you could operate by cable to push out the load. This is similar to industrial waste front lift trucks (Cleanaway etc who I worked for at one stage). When the truck empties your waste bin, the driver continually compacts the rubbish using this internal blade until the truck is full. Then the blade is used to push out the load at the landfill site. At Cleanaway the blade used a 300mm six-stage hydraulic ram but as you don’t require compaction, you could rig up a cable & pulleys device in the floor that would push the blade from front to back. Check out this video (much better than my words) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQCaxh3dNkc

    I’ve often found you can find ideas in other industries and adapt/modify the basic concept to your own need. Of the three discharge methods above, the side tipper is the simplest and least complex to maintain. Hope this at least sparks some tangential thoughts. Peter

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    Hi Rusty, is there anyone close by that has older farm machinery, a header for example, that you could rat a hydraulic motor that drove a large auger, may be the augers as well, from? A lot of farmers around here don't trade their old equipment in as they get nothing for it, and at times they rat it for parts etc. If you can't find anything let me know and I'll see what I can find, price wise.
    I'll have a poke around - there's a second hand ag machinery place nearby on the Hume, but always seems to want way too much for some rusted, rotting implement.

    I did have a quick look on Ebay - hydraulic motors are about $300 and flow valves about the same, so not crazy expensive, but ratting off existing equipment would be even cheaper.

    I think in the first instance I'd be inclined to follow what others have done for similar machines, as I've linked to. If I could find a cheap, used 3m x 600 wide belt conveyor unit, I could probably just use that as the actual floor and drive it with a hydraulic motor. My only concern is that the unit below looks to have four motors driving the floor, making me think it must need a bit of oomph to move the belt...



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterbilt View Post
    The discharge method you’re describing is called a “walking floor” and they’re relatively popular in bulky light cargo such as waste collection (depot to landfill) or pine chips etc.
    If we ever want a big quantity of mulch, that's what it'd be delivered in, rather than a truck and dog as we do now. The ones I've seen locally seem to have a sloping floor, but I've never actually seen inside one to check out how the walking floor business works.

    I’ve often found you can find ideas in other industries and adapt/modify the basic concept to your own need. Of the three discharge methods above, the side tipper is the simplest and least complex to maintain. Hope this at least sparks some tangential thoughts. Peter
    I've seen some very shiny-looking side tippers around the place in the last year or so. I haven't seen one dump, and I wonder how they avoid shifting the load out too far as to roll the vehicle, yet ensure the material doesn't pile back against the wheels?

    My first instinct is to try and follow an existing, proven design approach, if possible (and economical). The "moving floor" or conveyor belt seems to be what they do, and I can see it'd work well for both fine material, like gypsum or lime, and for the very coarse mulch we plan to use. The latter material has proved problematic (read: unspreadable) in other mulch spreaders as the feed mechanism hasn't been able to shift the material effectively.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    My first instinct is to try and follow an existing, proven design approach, if possible (and economical). The "moving floor" or conveyor belt seems to be what they do, and I can see it'd work well for both fine material, like gypsum or lime, and for the very coarse mulch we plan to use. The latter material has proved problematic (read: unspreadable) in other mulch spreaders as the feed mechanism hasn't been able to shift the material effectively.
    That is why I thought that an auger type system would work more efficiently, I could be wrong, my partner is always telling me I am
    The problem I see with the spinner system, is that I see it spreading across the back, not on the sides where you want it.
    I had a quick look on Ebay also and thought the prices weren't to bad.
    Kryn

  11. #11
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    Hi Rusty
    just some thoughts

    your trailer frame will need to be sufficiently rigid to support a walking floor

    hydraulics would seem to be the way to go for powering a walking floor and/or distribution conveyor

    conventionally conveyors are driven from the discharge end -- but when has convention hampered a home build ?

    I suggest you experiment somewhat with your mulch to find the "hang angle" -- it might be much steeper than 45°

    weight -- frame rigidity to support the walking floor, the motors, hydraulics on the trailer (or towing vehicle?) all add up will ground pressure be an issue?
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    The problem I see with the spinner system, is that I see it spreading across the back, not on the sides where you want it.
    Yeah, the spinners are more for broadcasting, for under-tree banding, they use a second, smaller conveyer running at high speed that flings the material sideways.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    conventionally conveyors are driven from the discharge end -- but when has convention hampered a home build ?
    In the pic of the green unit above, it looks like they have no fewer than 4 hydraulic motors driving the floor belt, one at each corner.

    I suggest you experiment somewhat with your mulch to find the "hang angle" -- it might be much steeper than 45°
    Good point. I've noticed that the walls of the commercial units are often steeper than 45, and there's probably a good reason why.

    weight -- frame rigidity to support the walking floor, the motors, hydraulics on the trailer (or towing vehicle?) all add up will ground pressure be an issue?
    My hope was to make a lightweight unit that would maybe carry less and do the job more slowly that the commercial units, but be able to be towed by a variety of vehicles. That might be a bit too much of an aspiration!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    My hope was to make a lightweight unit that would maybe carry less and do the job more slowly that the commercial units, but be able to be towed by a variety of vehicles. That might be a bit too much of an aspiration!
    the frame for the walking floor will need to be pretty rigid as the conveyor will be under tension
    then if there's the weight of the hydraulic pump and fluid tank
    regards from Canmore

    ian

  15. #15
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    Hi Rusty, my first thought was side tipper, but emptying from the bottom. So the same as your original drawing, split down the middle, with the side bins pivoting from a longitudinal axis top middle. As each side swings out the mulch is released from the bottom. You could release into a pivoting tray that slopes further away to the sides to get more distance out to the side, or if you wanted - run a conveyor system external to the main bin which would be far easier to clear blockages etc. The distribution slides and/or conveyors could pivot in and out from the side of the trailer independently as needed. The benefit of tipping out the bottom is the swing of the bin would tend to go under the branches of the trees rather than try to come down from the top. I could draw pic if that description is too convoluted.
    The other less practical thought was basically a cement truck concept: big worm screw feeding a chute.
    What sort of mulch is it? chips? strands? dry/wet etc.
    Cheers
    - Mick

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