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  1. #16
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    The main material to spread is coarse mulch - it's roughly ground up green waste. It's good mulch as it locks together and clings to slopes, and the irrigation water falls through it without being sponged up. Unfortunately, it is challenging to spread - you can't put a shovel into it, you have to use a fork. We did have some Landcruiser utes that had been fitted out as spreaders to distribute chook poo - they tried one load of this stuff and it was hopeless - it wouldn't feed, the mulch formed a cave over the conveyor requiring it to be constantly poked down. However, these spreaders were designed with a relatively narrow floor belt, and worked well with granular products and fine mulch.

    So the design goal would be to handle this coarse mulch, but if it could also handle lime and gypsum, the latter being an absolute dog to spread using a conical spreader, that'd be a big bonus.

    I'm wondering now if I should first have a go at building a simple conveyor belt...

  2. #17
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    May 2011
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Default Alternative Items to use

    Just a thought, a couple of alternative items to use. Would you be able to find an old bag elevator, to use as the base for spreader, the cross bars could have some flat welded to it to "grab" the mulch, I know it won't be of any use for lime/gypsum, but the first question was for spreading mulch. Ebay has a couple of hay bale elevators around the 250-300, one at Crowther and one around Ballarat area, which could also be used as a basis for your spreader. A similar system could be used to deliver the mulch off the back to the sides. You could also possibly power it from the wheels, as per original use, there for any vehicle could be used to deliver your mulch.
    Kryn
    Last edited by KBs PensNmore; 9th Apr 2015 at 12:37 AM. Reason: More details

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    429

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    There are a number of side tipper concepts that are used in mining and one I have seen in waste transport.

    One idea is the the bin does not tip from the edge it actually tips close to the centre of gravity..... more like a rolling drum with high sides.

    As has been mentioned there is another side tipper that opens along the side..... the bottom door opens and makes a ledge the top door opens well clear.... then the body lifts and rolls.

    here are some companies that are blowing mulch, soil and even rocks ...... but the energy required is huge....and the noise hell..... but it might solve that flying fox problem.

    because it does not have to drive on the road there are all sorts of things you could do.

    building as a dog trailer would allow the bin to be lower than the suspension or the axles ....... the bin or a ledge could extend beyond the wheels........ then opening from the side would be viable and the bottom ov the bin could be steeply sloped because it is well below the normal floor level.
    It would be necessary to regulate the opening of the door or the whole lot would just fall out .

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  4. #19
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    We've just spent the last few weeks spreading mulch using a tipping carry-all, which really is not an efficient way to move mulch - we had about 15m3 to move and I'd say the carry-all would take maybe 1/2m3, and you basically dump it then back over it and smoosh it forward with the carry-all. It means the mulch is spread along the middle of the row rather than to the sides where it needs to be, and it's about a 1km round trip to go get the next load.

    I took delivery of another 40m3 of mulch to be spread yesterday, and I've decided anything is going to be better than what we're doing now.

    So I'm going to have a whack at making a trailer, fundamentally the same as my first post, but probably with a bottom that can be swapped out to allow for alternative conveyors. In the first instance I'm going to try an auger along the bottom with a simple chute to direct the stuff sideways as it comes off. Later on I might have a go at making a conveyor belt... I did a quick test using a 2m long 3" auger I happened to have, laid it down in a piece of guttering full of mulch, and drove it with a battery drill - it worked pretty well. My plan is to use a 150mm auger.

    The mulch weighs about 400kg to the cube, so a 3 cubic metre trailer will be carrying about 1.2 tonnes of mulch.

    Given this is not road-use, and will never go faster than 20kph tops, and typically much slower than that, I'm wondering if I can get away with a single square 45mm axle with Ford hubs or even a lower rating? That said, the terrain is kinda rough.

    The other aspect is the width - it wants to be narrow, probably 1600 wide tops, 1500 would be good, but it also needs to be stable as it'll often be turning on a slope, and when full will have a high centre of gravity. When I get a moment I'll fire up Sketchup again and maybe draw what I'm thinking...

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    We've just spent the last few weeks spreading mulch using a tipping carry-all, which really is not an efficient way to move mulch - we had about 15m3 to move and I'd say the carry-all would take maybe 1/2m3, and you basically dump it then back over it and smoosh it forward with the carry-all. It means the mulch is spread along the middle of the row rather than to the sides where it needs to be, and it's about a 1km round trip to go get the next load.

    I took delivery of another 40m3 of mulch to be spread yesterday, and I've decided anything is going to be better than what we're doing now.

    So I'm going to have a whack at making a trailer, fundamentally the same as my first post, but probably with a bottom that can be swapped out to allow for alternative conveyors. In the first instance I'm going to try an auger along the bottom with a simple chute to direct the stuff sideways as it comes off. Later on I might have a go at making a conveyor belt... I did a quick test using a 2m long 3" auger I happened to have, laid it down in a piece of guttering full of mulch, and drove it with a battery drill - it worked pretty well. My plan is to use a 150mm auger.

    The mulch weighs about 400kg to the cube, so a 3 cubic metre trailer will be carrying about 1.2 tonnes of mulch.

    Given this is not road-use, and will never go faster than 20kph tops, and typically much slower than that, I'm wondering if I can get away with a single square 45mm axle with Ford hubs or even a lower rating? That said, the terrain is kinda rough.

    The other aspect is the width - it wants to be narrow, probably 1600 wide tops, 1500 would be good, but it also needs to be stable as it'll often be turning on a slope, and when full will have a high centre of gravity. When I get a moment I'll fire up Sketchup again and maybe draw what I'm thinking...
    Hi Rusty,
    I'd definitely go for the square axle with Ford hubs, never know if you want to deliver chook poo. I think you'll find a 6 X 4 trailer is about the 1700 mark wide.
    The axle and wheels will fit under the hopper, an open top auger will be perfect for it. At the end of the auger, you could have a chute to deliver the mulch, similar to a concrete trucks delivery system.
    Kryn

  6. #21
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    I'd definitely go for the square axle with Ford hubs, never know if you want to deliver chook poo. I think you'll find a 6 X 4 trailer is about the 1700 mark wide.
    The axle and wheels will fit under the hopper, an open top auger will be perfect for it. At the end of the auger, you could have a chute to deliver the mulch, similar to a concrete trucks delivery system.
    You're probably right about the axle rating - while it's been designed for a specific material at the moment, there's no guarantee someone might throw poo, gypsum or lime in it.

    A bit of Googling suggests you can get axles in whatever width, including 1500mm, so I might work with that. Given the base of the hopper is 600 wide and is supporting the load, yet the springs are going to be set out maybe 950 apart (total guess), there's going to be a bit going on with the main chassis rails, the hopper rails and what connects/supports the two.

    Going to start with 75x50x2.5 for the main chassis rails and drawbar.

  7. #22
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    May 2011
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    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    You're probably right about the axle rating - while it's been designed for a specific material at the moment, there's no guarantee someone might throw poo, gypsum or lime in it.

    A bit of Googling suggests you can get axles in whatever width, including 1500mm, so I might work with that. Given the base of the hopper is 600 wide and is supporting the load, yet the springs are going to be set out maybe 950 apart (total guess), there's going to be a bit going on with the main chassis rails, the hopper rails and what connects/supports the two.

    Going to start with 75x50x2.5 for the main chassis rails and drawbar.
    Hi Rusty,
    From the hub face to the chassis edge, you have 170 mm, (I know this for a fact, as I just measured the distance on my trailer) so if you got your axle at 1500 hub face to hub face, your chassis would be 1160 wide over all. Just under the width of a 6 X 4. I don't see a need for springs, something else to wear out and unnecessary expense.

    The way I'd do it, is to make a rectangular frame, complete with drawbar, as this will hold it square, no cross members inside as this will be the base for everything. Under this mount the axle, I normally use a rule of 1/2" per foot total length of trailer, if the trailer is 8' long the axle centre would be 4" behind centre. I'd use a piece of 75 x 50 approx 150 mm long with a plate welded on the bottom of it, axle would be bolted to this with U bolts. I'd also put a support bar 50 X 25 X 3 from the base of the plate to the drawbar, this is to give extra support to the axle assy.
    On top of this another frame which will support the hopper. With the dispersal mechanism, be it auger, conveyor belt, what ever, mounted under the hopper.
    These are my thoughts only. Hope this helps.
    Kryn

  8. #23
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    Thanks for the ideas - I actually do want suspension for a couple of reasons, including the extra height it'll provide - one issue with a simple chute to direct the material is it needs to be 45 degrees or the mulch won't flow, so the lower the hopper, the less distance sideways you can deliver the material. I kind of want to get it out to the wheel, but I don't think that'll be possible without some kind of mechanical assistance.

    I've attached what I've drawn up so far - the hopper will have a 40x40 frame added to it. The auger feed bit is designed to be removable (somehow) so I can replace it with a belt, or a new auger design if my first attempt doesn't work. I've got two 75x50 intermediate cross rails - I expect they don't need to be this strong as they're only supporting 1/4 of the hopper's weight.

    I'm kind of wondering if the track of the trailer needs to be so wide - it's 1500 wide, and the total height is about 1500, however the hopper will be quite top-heavy when full, and this will be used on very steep terrain.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    Thanks for the ideas - I actually do want suspension for a couple of reasons, including the extra height it'll provide - one issue with a simple chute to direct the material is it needs to be 45 degrees or the mulch won't flow, so the lower the hopper, the less distance sideways you can deliver the material. I kind of want to get it out to the wheel, but I don't think that'll be possible without some kind of mechanical assistance.

    I've attached what I've drawn up so far - the hopper will have a 40x40 frame added to it. The auger feed bit is designed to be removable (somehow) so I can replace it with a belt, or a new auger design if my first attempt doesn't work. I've got two 75x50 intermediate cross rails - I expect they don't need to be this strong as they're only supporting 1/4 of the hopper's weight.

    I'm kind of wondering if the track of the trailer needs to be so wide - it's 1500 wide, and the total height is about 1500, however the hopper will be quite top-heavy when full, and this will be used on very steep terrain.
    Hi Rusty,
    The idea in the attachments is OK, but need to be a lot higher to give you the dispersal required, I would say the bottom of the auger would need to be about 400 higher.
    I'm prepared to draw it up on CAD if you like, to work out the height required to give you the 45 degrees run off for the mulch to run down.
    I wouldn't go much less than the 1500 wide axle, as this will give you the stability required, on the slopes. Are you able to take a 6 x 4 trailer through with out damaging anything?
    The auger removal section is an easy fix, clamp a piece of 32 x 8 outside the 40 RHS drill and tap the holes, remove the flat, drill a hole approx 30 mm either side of the tapped holes in the RHS, slide the flat inside the RHS, using the bolt holes, bolt the flat in place and weld in place.
    Kryn

  10. #25
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    I think I'll probably leave the ultimate height of the hopper to the construction and testing stage - it should be easy enough to raise it as required. I've got a few options for how to drive the auger, and one might offer a simple way to add some kind of assisted side feed.

    Cheers for the tapped flat bar inside the RHS solution - I'll definitely use that. I'll add the hopper frame and then maybe draw up the detail of how the auger floor assembly attaches.

  11. #26
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    Glad to help, if you have any problems, give me a yell. As an idea, the bottom of the auger would have to be a minimum of 750 above the chassis, to give you the 45 degree fall required for the mulch. Unless you want the chute below the chassis.
    Kryn

  12. #27
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    Will be very grateful for ideas and advice.

    Just did a few calcs on auger delivery. My estimate is that a 150mm auger at 120rpm will deliver 190 litres of material per minute, taking 16 minutes to empty a 3,000 litre hopper, which sounds a bit slow. Upping the auger to 200mm gets 434 litres per minute empties it in 7 minutes, which sounds more reasonable. I don't think I'd want to spin the auger much faster than 120rpm, but it's all a bit of a guess at this point.

    I'm wondering if I could use a second auger for side feed, as they seem pretty simple to implement.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    Will be very grateful for ideas and advice.

    Just did a few calcs on auger delivery. My estimate is that a 150mm auger at 120rpm will deliver 190 litres of material per minute, taking 16 minutes to empty a 3,000 litre hopper, which sounds a bit slow. Upping the auger to 200mm gets 434 litres per minute empties it in 7 minutes, which sounds more reasonable. I don't think I'd want to spin the auger much faster than 120rpm, but it's all a bit of a guess at this point.

    I'm wondering if I could use a second auger for side feed, as they seem pretty simple to implement.
    Hi Rusty,
    Sounds like a step in the right direction. You'd need to find a left and right hand twist auger, they'd need to be around 700 long each. You'll also require a "T" gearbox that drives in and right angled out each side to drive the augers. Ideally the output end needs to turn a bit faster, to allow for the larger auger supply, probably around 1:1.5.
    I wouldn't use open bevel gears, as I think that they would fill with mulch in no time and cause major problems.
    By running with augers for the delivery, it will keep the C of G down quite a bit.
    You've probably worked most of this out already. When it's finished and the neighbours see it, they'll want one as well, could be a nice little side line.
    Kryn

  14. #29
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    Had a moment to add the outer frame for the hopper - 40x40x2. Not sure if the frame is efficient engineering-wise, but seems to make sense.

    Using 65x65x5 angle at the base so I can bolt through it into the floor feed unit (that connection not drawn, but probably RHS with tapped flat bar as suggested).

    The hopper is supported on the chassis by 50x50x5 legs - it'll probably get mounted a bit higher to allow for a bigger diameter auger.

    Currently leaning towards using a hydraulic motor to spin the auger, but it'll need a flow control, relief valve and 2-way valve so it can be reversed if it jams. The same again will be needed for the side feed auger if I go that way.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #30
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    a few more design considerations for you ...

    depending on the ground clearance, the longitudinal auger could be mounted below the axle and trailer frame or immediately above the axle but still below the frame. Think in terms of suspending the auger "tube" from the frame. Being low in the frame won't be an issue if you're using a 2nd auger to "throw" the material under the plants. This might suggest a smaller diameter higher speed auger to achieve sufficient throw. You'll need a small surge bin where the two augers meet.

    I'd be happier if struts supporting the hopper were welded to the outer frame at the point on the hopper where the 45° sides run vertically.

    how rough is the ground surface between the rows -- rough enough shake the mulch down sides that slope less than 45°?
    regards from Canmore

    ian

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