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  1. #1
    johncee1945 Guest

    Default "Let the buyer beware"

    A word of caution on buying used welding and tool machinery from online auctions. I recently bid on a used mig welder (photo) up for auction 150 kms. away. The final price was $360. Grays auction house then added a "buyers premium" and GST totalling $90. Then there is travelling costs and I still have not seen the welder or know if it works! Do you ever get the feeling that everything is back to front, that wrong is considered right and that the system is against you?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default

    The additional costs associated with your purchase would of been outlined in there listing,sometimes the GST is included in the final price and the buyer premiums can differ from one auction to anotherI suppose buying anything sight unseen can be a bit risky.

  3. #3
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    Default

    It has nothing to do with online auctions though. I've been to a number of Grays auctions in Sydney and there is nearly always a buyer's premium. Sometimes GST is included in the sale price. It's always spelled out in the conditions which you're supposed to read before bidding, otherwise they'd have trouble collecting it.

    It's hard to say the system is against you if you don't actually know what the system is
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Port Sorell Tasmania
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    Default



    Now is not the time to worry about whether it works or not. The time(s) to worry about that was before you bid and after you find out that it in fact does not work - if that tunes out to be the case.

    Be positive. What would be the new or replacement cost of the welder - I suspect you are probably doing ok.

    Good luck

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Bendigo Victoria
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    Default

    Your thread title is more accurate than your statement that "the system is against you".

    As others have pointed out, it is up to the person bidding at auction, be it online or in person, to find out the terms of sale. GraysOnline are not alone in adding a buyers' premium to the final bid price, GST is a government added costs.

    I guess you are suffering from post-auction (as opposed to post-partum) depression

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Brierfield
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    Default

    Also beware of online auctions from Grays as one auction can have a number of locations to collect from.

    Always look for the pickup location as the freight costs can bite. Also you need to note the pickup times and what is required to do the job.

    I resently picked up a 5hp dust extractor for $130 including all but travel. As it was local that was only a few dollars but it cost another $50 to hire the forklift from across the street to lift the unit off the roof and only my truck.

    Another item there was a 4' drum sander which sold for under $1000. Really good price but as it was nearly 4 tons a crane was required plus a fence needed to be taken down and rebuilt plus a unloading at the other end so the final cost was far more than the double the purchase price.

    However there are many good deals if you play the game right.
    End of another day milling

  7. #7
    johncee1945 Guest

    Default

    I also oppose the GST which is a regressive tax on society. That is, a tax against society, not a tax for society. None of the pre-promised benefits have materialised in the social infrastructure hospitals, pre-school, primary, high and uni education, rail, ambulance and fire brigades etc., In reality, the running down and degrading of the social services has increased. So the politicians can hand them over to their well heeled cronies which they dress up fraud as "privatisation". Todays media headline reads "schools on notice" which means gutting schools and merging them. And the politicians keep the taxes. Not the rich schools but working class schools.

    A GST is charged on new goods and then a GST charged on the same goods sold through the auctions. This is parasitism.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Sounds to me as if your beef is with the government, not Grays...
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Queensland
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    Default

    Agree with the above on knowing all the bits & pieces before you commit your hard earned, however, the comment re the GST is also of merit.

    Did anyone really believe that all of those other taxes would disappear? Remember the distinction between a tax and a levy?

    GST = Grab, Steal & Take from the government's point of view.

    To most of us left

    GST = Grand Scale Theft

    If the funds had been used for what we were lead to believe then it it would be a little more palatable.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default

    You can make the same argument for any tax. What do they do with all our income tax, company tax, payroll tax, stamp duty, petrol excise, alcohol and tobacco excise, import duty, etc etc etc?

    You can't argue that governments shouldn't collect tax, where else will they get the money to run the country? GST (which replaced sales tax don't forget) is just another way of raising it and I agree with the principal of a consumption tax. We're certainly not the only country that has one.

    The only argument you can really make is that the money thus collected is not used the way you think it should be, and that's why we have elections.

    But the point is that Grays don't have an option on whether to collect it or not - under the conditions of the legislation, they are required to collect it. I think the only variable is whether it is added to the sale price, or included in it. I'm not sure what governs that but it may have something to do with the GST status of the vendor. If the vendor is not registered to collect GST, then Grays would probably have to collect it on their behalf. I don't think they just toss a coin before the auction.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Armidale NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    But the point is that Grays don't have an option on whether to collect it or not - under the conditions of the legislation, they are required to collect it.
    Going by the clearing sales and auctions I've been to, you only pay GST if the vendor is registered for GST (i.e. it is an auction of goods/assets from a business, rather than from a private individual). So if the vendor is not registered for GST then it doesn't need to be paid. Having said that though, I would assume 99.999% of the vendors Grays deal with would be in the "vendor is GST registered" category.

    As far as whether the final sale price should include GST, I'm not sure on that one, but I think that as long as it is advertised, they can do either.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Default

    Fair enough. What I meant was that, if they are required to collect it, they don't have an option. So if the legislation requires them to collect it, they have to collect it. Whether it's applicable to all sales or not, I have no idea, but the 3 sales I have been to were all GST included in the price but buyer's premium applied.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Dyason View Post
    However there are many good deals if you play the game right.
    You could probably reword that to "There are many good deals if you live in Sydney or Melbourne"

    That seems to be where all the gear that is sold on Ebay/other online website is...

    It depressing to live in a machine desert and see lathes, mills, grinders in the Sydney/Melbourne area going dirt cheap with the words "pick up only" next to the ad..

  14. #14
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    Apr 2008
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    NSW
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    Default

    But John Howard Promised that the GST would not apply to secondhand goods!!!
    The GST has already been paid once when it was new.
    Ofcourse we are being robbed constantly , repeatedly , incessantly .
    How much GST is charged on an article over its whole life being sold and resold numerous times.

  15. #15
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    NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .RC. View Post
    You could probably reword that to "There are many good deals if you live in Sydney or Melbourne"

    That seems to be where all the gear that is sold on Ebay/other online website is...

    It depressing to live in a machine desert and see lathes, mills, grinders in the Sydney/Melbourne area going dirt cheap with the words "pick up only" next to the ad..
    Yes I agree . It is very demoralising . Truth is I don't buy much from ebay anymore as there is so many shonky sellers and bad descriptions of goods and outrageous postage quotes . I got a quote the other day for $79 US to post 10 small end mills. I said no way a flat rate envelope should only cost $ 35 from USA . They replied with a quote of $ 39 . What they are doing is listing an item cheap and ripping off the extra money on the postage , e bay seems not interested in cleaning it up.

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