Thread: Welding question ? ... Is this dangerous ?

MAy be cost prohibitive, but wottabout a good quality heatsink material?

I reckon ANdy is right, if the weld is too close to the water then it will just boil away laving the edge unprotected.

A heat sink could be a good idea - nothing flash, just big bits of scrap clamped on between the file end and the weld

What about brazing? Not strong enough?

I think the answer is as Andy Mac suggests. Stop buggering around with pots of water, just weld it up as per normal, then heat treat. I find the only difficult thing about the process is getting enough heat, particularly with solid lumps of steel. LPG gives up the fight on anything bigger than the tang, and I have no oxy.

Am planning a small, portable forge. Suggest you contemplate also, Jake. Should open up a world of further endeavour.

Thanks everyone....good stuff. Sorry about my absense. Had to take off.

Low hydrogen rods, heatsinking sounds like good advice.

Blacksmith stuff really sounds interesting allright, but, I'd imagine there's a fair bit to learning and then practice, to get to the point where I can successfully harden then temper a blade 'just right' ...... Be a lot of stuffups no doubt, which will only distract from my interests right now.

its seems far easier right now, to pick up an old Wiltshire file, grind it to shape, pull back if too hot, buff it sharp.....DONE ! I mean, I like to keep things simple. Creating a blade, by the regular Blacksmithing way must be far tricker.

And besides, the results I'm getting are really good. These old files seem to be perfectly tempered already for the plane blades I'm making at the moment. I'm no expert, but they seem to retain their edge far better than the profile blades that come with the planes in the first place! I'm talking about Stanley 45, and 55 blades etc.

AND, I'm a cheap bugger. And nothings cheaper than old rusty files from old scungy toolboxes from the markets.

Thanks for the feedback on the danger....... That was my biggest worry. Means now I can do some experimenting.....

Andy ! ...Question :> The colour left on a shinny piece of steel is indicative of the hardness , right ? So, if I ground off the seration of a file, making it all shinny and did some welding on it, Can I be certain that portions of the file that haven't changed colour haven't been tempered ?

Cause, if thats a certainty, then I can test this water idea, to see if the colour of the steel changes under the water.....And what colours become a worry anyway ?....Light yellows the first to appear isn't it ?...Its all a bit of a guess, I suppose, but if an area under the water gets much darker than light yellow then I can say that the ideas failed, right ? ....Would that be an acceptable test ?

I'm going to give it a go ! See what happens.... I'll post pictures of the results (eventually) thanks

Jake, know what you're on about, I 've made a few gouges, chisels etc from old files.

I think that you're missing a bit of the logic here. It must take hours to fashion the hardened steel from an un-treated file, particularly an old file with high carbon content. If you anneal (think that's right) ie make it back into soft, workable steel, your fashioning process will be SO much easier.

Also think you over estimate the skill required to harden. Someone correct me if I've got this ballsed up, but you simply heat to cherry red, then quench!

Have a go!

Originally Posted by apricotripper

Question :> The colour left on a shinny piece of steel is indicative of the hardness , right ? So, if I ground off the seration of a file, making it all shinny and did some welding on it, Can I be certain that portions of the file that haven't changed colour haven't been tempered ?

Basically I think you're right, any change in colour would indicate heat has flowed on and possibly altered the temper. I wouldn't say they haven't been tempered, the file would have its own temper/hardness and will hopefully stay as it is, except for the area of the weld. Thats where annealing and retempering will pay off, but as you say Jake, what you've done so far has worked, so keep pushing the envelop untill it fails you!

Bodgy, thats the simple way of saying you've hardened it... the tempering is to then alter that hardness to a more tractable state. But with welding and grinding there are stresses intorduced and if I was doing it, I'd relieve those before hardening.

Cheers,

Sorry, I may not have got the gist of the thread but why can't it be bronze welded?.

David

That's what I said. They ignored me

Originally Posted by Metal Head

why can't it be bronze welded?

and Silent...

I don't know really, personally haven't tried brazing high carbon steel, just mild and cast, but that's what TCT are joined with? Wouldn't sufficient heat still enter the steel to alter the hardness? Does Jake even have oxy-acet?

Cheers,

With brazing, you only need enough heat to melt the wire, which is much less than you need when arc welding because with that you need to melt the base material itself. I don't know whether it would affect the hardness or not. I just know it's a lot cooler. Might be worth a try if he can get hold of an oxy set.

The other option is brazing.

Don't be ridiculous! That'll NEVER work....

Jake, bite the bullet! Stop pussyfooting around! Get into the magical world of forges, anvils and very big hammers.

Brazing? It'll be superglue next!

I shall have a stern word with you next week.

Originally Posted by Andy Mac

and Silent...

I don't know really, personally haven't tried brazing high carbon steel, just mild and cast, but that's what TCT are joined with? Wouldn't sufficient heat still enter the steel to alter the hardness? Does Jake even have oxy-acet?

Cheers,

He could always hire the equipment from Kennards (see image attached). If there isn't too much heat put into the area (just enough to melt the filler wire) then it should work OK. well there's no harm in trying - that is the way I would go.

Cheers
David