Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default Comment about Cheap welding shields and UV damage to eyes through lenses

    Over the years since the introduction of electronic helmets, there has been much discussion on this MetalWork forum and other forums about welders shields and welders flash.

    For those new people to welding, and welding safety I feel compelled to point out there is a lot of misleading information promoted as fact by people who regurgitate half truths from other forums, u tube and other net media.

    The gist of it all, is that cheaper helmets may cause users to suffer UV damage to their eyes from harmful UV welding emissions that pass through the clear lens of the welding shield.

    I am now attempting to put the record straight OK so don't shoot the messenger please.

    My knowledge of UV safety is gained from my 51 years involvement in the welding industry /training as a tradesman, Welding Supervisor, and Inspector and as a Trade teacher.
    To that, as a Australian Welding Institute committee Branch Officer in Gladstone and Darwin which meant association with a few of the people who helped prepare some Australian NZ Standards. These are and were trained personnel whose extensive expertise in the subject of the applicable standard in this case welding UV emissions and safety warrented inclusion on the various commitees and panels.

    Fact 1.
    Clear disposable welding shield lenses(once glass and now plastic ) have been used in welding shields both old non-electronic and the more recent electronic versions. It’s a given that the clear disposable lens is common to both types of shields.

    From my personal knowledge, the disposable lenses have never been indicated as a cause/or involved with any critical UV eye damage to Industrial welders if they are used as they are supposed to be used.

    For the benefit of overseas readers the industry contributes to the formation through nominated members to the panels which are formed to publish the Australian Standards.
    Other countries have similar bodies, so any evidence found would be naturally passed on to the Australian SSA body as the International standards organisations act cooperatively.

    The Australian Welding Industry, as a group of industrial manufacturers of all welded products would never expose its workers to any hazard of this nature and would be quick to act upon any hazard of this nature. They are linked closely with the SAA the standards Association of Australia and New Zealand.

    Fact 2
    The S.A.A body and the sister bodies overseas are not like to make an error of that magnitude. Bear in mind these standards are updated with new copies and addendums on a very regular basis so if a problem arose it would be covered.
    Before that happened an immediate alert would go around the industries and the Work Health and Safety bodies would broadcast the hazard alert to the industry concerned .

    Fact 3.
    Forever( almost) the Standard has been clear safety glasses for people working close to the welders. Some will reply that many industries don’t push this. That is true but for those that that do people wearing cleaner safety glasses( with side shields) do not suffer flashes.

    Fact 4
    Welder’s flash is an eye condition that occurs from intense exposure to ultraviolet rays from the electrical arc that wielding machines emit. Welder’s flash is similar to a sunburn on the skin, but it affects the corneas of the eyes. Pain does not usually present itself until several hours after exposure. Symptoms include weeping of the tear duct, a gritty feeling in the eye socket and a general feeling of eye pain.

    Fact 5
    Some cannot distinguish between a welders flash and a momentary loss of vision. It happens to me when I put the shield for a few minutes it will switch off automatically. I come back after a while and forget to turn it back on. OOps ! I receive a momentary loss of vision NOT A FLASH. I have never suffered a welders flash because of this, just a loss of vision for a few moments.


    Fact 6
    I asked my Ophthalmologist opinion on welding flashes and clear lenses. His answer was that welders flashes affect the NAKED eye.

    As a doctor who commonly treats these UV injuries, he would know, I should think.

    Fact 7
    OHSA recommends
    “For most jobs, eye protection that conforms to ANSI Z87.1 is sufficient. However, shields or goggles with shade ratings of 3-8 should be worn for gas welding. For arc welding, safety glasses should be worn under shields.”

    Note ANSI Z877.1.Thats treated an international standard. It should appear on new shields sold in this country. Sheilds with this marking must comply with that standard or they would not be sold here or overseas.

    You will also see the statement that the shield stops 99% of harmful radiation.
    In makes sense then that the clear safety glass under the shield stop the remaining 1%.


    In a nutshell.

    You cant receive welders flash if you USE the correct PPE gear as described above.

    You MIGHT receive a flash if your shield is up and you accidently touch the electrode to earth and cause an arc and you are NOT wearing Safety clear glasses under your shield.

    For those who say but my sore eyes and get gritty, I say it is not welders flash unless you have a hole in your shield.

    My eyes are sore and gritty now that its taken so long to write this.

    I hope this will help someone.

    Grahame

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    For those who say but my sore eyes and get gritty, I say it is not welders flash unless you have a hole in your shield.
    To what extent could reflection (i.e. welding inside a structure/shed/tank/etc) cause an issue?
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Rockhampton, QLD
    Age
    68
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Thanks for taking the time to write this Grahame.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vernonv View Post
    To what extent could reflection (i.e. welding inside a structure/shed/tank/etc) cause an issue?
    Hi Vernon,
    It certainly can be an issue, but understand is an additional recommended PPE for use in tanks.

    It is the stainless steel and aluminium tanks that are the real problem. Steel tanks not so much.

    The PPE recommended is a treated cotton duck or denim hood that the welder dons then puts on the safety glasses and shield.

    When I say treated, the hood is treated with something so that it will not burn.
    Anyone who fails to wear the hood will deserve the UV burns he/she invariably will receive.

    In my time there was a heavy duty (UV) zinc based sun? block that was plastered literally on the back of the ears, neck and anywhere else the UV rays might conceivably reach.

    Picture hot tropical weather with humidity then going in the tank with this sticky greasy crap on.

    Trust me the hood is better as it also reduces the amount of grinding grit that goes in your hair and down your clothing as it is shoulder length and covers the neck opening.

    Also, you have to have a forced/ induced ventilated tank (confined spaces) and an observer- it is L-A-W law as M. Keating once said.

    Grahame

    welding hood balaclava.jpg
    Last edited by Grahame Collins; 14th Dec 2018 at 06:33 PM. Reason: for a piccy

  5. #5
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    That "wants pictures" click was accidental. I meant to hit , thanks for posting

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    67
    Posts
    362

    Default

    A good read. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

    I got bad welding flash one night working on a job in a confined space. Has to one of the worse things I have experienced. Felt like someone had pored buckets of sand into my eyes and was then preceding to rub it in with their boot heels.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    I've found that when you do get a flash, and it feels like what bts mentioned, and you can't get to a Doctor for treatment, (no one's open at 3.00AM), that using some Full Cream milk in an eye wash container, and irrigating the eye, helps reduce the sand in the eye effect, till you can get Medical Treatment.
    Don't know if using other eye lubricants work, but would be interesting to hear comments.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    To add just a little to the great info provided by Graeme:
    'Ordinary' glass, Plexiglass (Acrylic) transmit significant amounts of UV light/radiation, whereas Polycarbonate absorbs almost all of it - sorry, didn't take the time to find a reputable source, but I remember the experiments to demonstrate and confirm this at Uni very well...
    The other 'radiation' in welding often overlooked is Infra-red (IR). Since it is perceivable by humans as heat, it seems obvious that we deal with it instinctively. However, gas shielded arc welding emits very large amounts of IR, since it is not absorbed by the smoke as is generated in flux shielded welding processes.
    We can feel that radiation after a while in our skin when we weld, and take remedial action - like thicker gloves or greater distance, but at a distance, in clear air, this radiation cannot be perceived by humans. It can damage the retina of the eyes seriously - without any sensation of heat!
    Dark glass and liquid crystal material - switched on or not - will stop almost all of it. At a distance, even sunglasses will, but clear safety glasses will not.
    It takes a lot longer to damage the retina with IR than the cornea with UV, but both have serious consequences, not just discomfort!
    Keep both in mind, please. (apart from the pain of slag and metal dribbles into boots and V-necks )
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    Dark glass and liquid crystal material - switched on or not - will stop almost all of it. At a distance, even sunglasses will, but clear safety glasses will not.
    Joe,
    Please read what these people say.

    https://blog.safetyglassesusa.com/to...eyewear-myths/

    The extract below is a cut and paste from their blog.

    Safety Eyewear Myth #3 – Tinted lenses are necessary to provide protection from UV rays.

    " Lens tints exist for aiding visibility, not UV protection. In fact, shaded sunglasses without UV protection can do more harm than no sunglasses at all because they dilate the pupil and open it up for more exposure to harmful UV light. Fortunately, the vast majority of today’s safety glass lenses are made of some form of polycarbonate, which naturally blocks 99.9% of UV light. So, even safety glasses with clear polycarbonate lenses will provide excellent UV protection."


    Respectfully

    Grahame

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cairns, Q
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Hi Grahame,

    Thanks for your notes on eye protection from UV radiation.

    However, as I read it, Joe's comment which you quoted in post #9 refers to IR radiation protection. I don't recall hearing or reading anywhere that IR radiation specifically might cause problems when welding using normal PPE, but I can see from Joe's comments that some extra precautions might be needed in some circumstances. Do you have any views or comments on this?

    Frank.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    My sincere apologies to both Joe and Franco

    I jumped the gun without reading the post properly.

    In our training, we covered the different radiation emissions from the welding arc.

    There were Visible Light radiation, UV and IR.

    UV and IR were invisible. It was always UV that was given the most attention.
    Again my apologies.

    Grahame

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    67
    Posts
    362

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    I've found that when you do get a flash, and it feels like what bts mentioned, and you can't get to a Doctor for treatment, (no one's open at 3.00AM), that using some Full Cream milk in an eye wash container, and irrigating the eye, helps reduce the sand in the eye effect, till you can get Medical Treatment.
    Don't know if using other eye lubricants work, but would be interesting to hear comments.
    Kryn
    Yep, takes a lot to get me to go to a hospital but that's where I ended up.
    Nurse washing my eyes out and a Doc pumping me full of drugs. Day and a night later they let me out. ( don't you love country hospitals)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

    Default

    Here are a couple of references. One from Linde/BOC amd one for the really curious, in the BMJ:
    Eyes | BOC Australia - A Member of The Linde Group
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...I8vYViXm_9ADJ1
    Cheers,
    Joe
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    From Joe's second link:

    "A 26-year-old unemployed mechanic with no previous
    arc welding experience borrowed a MIG welder to repair the bodywork of his car. The protective visor was not used because outside lighting conditions were poor, making it difficult to see through the glass filter. The patient estimated that he continued to weld intermittently over the course of one and a half hours with no eye protection. The only attempt to protect the eyes was made by 'looking away from the arc' and holding the welder at arm's length."

    Even if he did no welding as part of his mechanic course, anyone who's worked in a workshop should know that was just plain dumb.




    Chris

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    [QUOTE=jack620;1944330]From Joe's second link:.........Even if he did no welding as part of his mechanic course, anyone who's worked in a workshop should know that was just plain dumb[/QUOTE]

    I agree, both the cases reported in that article are rather high on the "stupid" stakes.

    Along the same lines, a 2011 study of 301 industrial welders in Nigeria that suffered an eye injury found 85% were wearing no eye protection at the time of injury even though 97% had been provided with eye protection. NB this included injuries from foreign objects in the eye which accounted for 27% of injuries.

    This is from this from a 1991 study in the US - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...00394-0035.pdf

    Screen Shot 2018-12-16 at 6.28.18 am.png

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Cheap alum welding
    By kenny_10 in forum WELDING
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 3rd Sep 2018, 05:35 PM
  2. TIG - Gas Lenses
    By Gavin Newman in forum WELDING
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 16th Dec 2012, 10:37 PM
  3. Cheap As Chips Welding Gloves
    By matthew_g in forum WELDING
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 9th Sep 2010, 11:49 PM
  4. Melting Lenses
    By Chris Parks in forum WELDING
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 1st Sep 2007, 10:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •