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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boonah Qld
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    82
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    24

    Default Welding Cast is difficult. I didn't know that at the time.

    I learnt to weld oxy and stick back in early 1960's as a teen. Dad had a structral engineering shop. But I knew nothing about welding cast as far as I knew it was just another metal you could weld. I have a stick welder and an oxy set. On my farm I broke a cast iron vice no problem over to the local co-op purchase cast rods weld it up no problem. Couple of exhaust manifolds broken off on tractors that hit branches etc. Then another big heavy vice. No problem just used the stick welder and stuck them together again. Now retired and still with a good workshop I decided to restore a rare old 1922 tractor for the local historic village. It was hot when pumping water and it rolled into the cold water of the creek. This resulted in heaps of cracked cast. Sure says I, that'll be ok I can weld cast, done it before. However I thought I better check it out on the internet. "Cricky!" suddenly I found out welding cast is difficult. "Struth" what have I done? Oh well I"ll just have to read a bit more I guess. This forum seems like a good place to get advice. Must have been beginners luck before.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Welcome to a Top Forum.
    If we had pics of the parts, it might be easier to help. From what I can remember, depending on the thickness, it should be heated and allowed to cool down slowly, to prevent it from cracking. If it's thick where it's cracked, grinding it back to form a V will help with penetration.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flocar View Post
    No problem just used the stick welder and stuck them together again. Now retired and still with a good workshop I decided to restore a rare old 1922 tractor for the local historic village. It was hot when pumping water and it rolled into the cold water of the creek. This resulted in heaps of cracked cast.

    Sure says I, that'll be ok I can weld cast, done it before. However I thought I better check it out on the internet. "Cricky!" suddenly I found out welding cast is difficult. "Struth" what have I done? Oh well I"ll just have to read a bit more I guess. This forum seems like a good place to get advice. Must have been beginners luck before.
    Before I will comment specifially on the proposed repair, I would like to know the Following"

    "just used the stick welder and stuck them together again."

    Did you use a DC welder and did you use proprietry cast iron welding electrodes on your shop repairs? Having stick welded probably in excess of a 100 cast iron jobs I can assure you no two repairs are exactly the same.
    Cast stick welds resonably when procedures are followed and the weldment does not vary substaintially from thick to thin. It is not a ductile metal and contracts quite rapidly uder cooling, and is suspectible to cracking and complete fracture around the thin areas. Perhaps you encountered heavy section items.
    The electrodes I used then typically were Castcraft 55 s or their equaivalent. This was to take advantage of their soft ductile deposit whick can be machined drilled and tapped.The nickel content of the electrodes help cope with the contarcation cracking problems.

    The nature and loaction of the tractor engine cracking shall be critical to the type of electrode used.

    If cracking does not extend into the water jacket or cylinders it should be OK.
    I can say more if I see some photos.
    Cheers
    Grahame

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    I'd echo what Grahame has said, while adding my endorsement for these electrodes. https://www.castolin.com/en-US/produ...ode-xuper-2240
    They are nothing short of magic in their easy to run abilities, colour match and machinability. Their only downside is cost of around $180 for 1Kg, although a 1922 tractor would have significant value and justify their use.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boonah Qld
    Age
    82
    Posts
    24

    Default

    The front casting holds the front axle to the engine, provides the bottom tank for the radiator, and the pivot for the axle, as well as a single spring to allow for some up and down movement, and so is a bit complicated. (Never seen a spring on the front suspension of a tractor before.) It has a sealing surface against the radiator and against the engine. The edge of the radiator sealing edge was completely rusted away in two places and very pitted on the rest. As well there was 8 holes, some large, in the tank part and the pipe to the engine. In the photo you can see I have used a die grinder to clean up all areas to be welded. As well as weld I will use Devcon Epoxy Putty to level of the pitted sealing edge. Now luck played a part, the casting was steel not iron, and so welding was straight forward except the thin spots burnt through. So I reverted to brazing.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boonah Qld
    Age
    82
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    I'd echo what Grahame has said, while adding my endorsement for these electrodes. https://www.castolin.com/en-US/produ...ode-xuper-2240
    They are nothing short of magic in their easy to run abilities, colour match and machinability. Their only downside is cost of around $180 for 1Kg, although a 1922 tractor would have significant value and justify their use.
    This is a rather rare tractor and does have value but I am doing this as a "love job" for the local Historical Village so I want to keep the costs down. I have bought cast sticks recently and they worked out at about $6.?? each. The engine is cast and is very bad so I will need rods. I'll check out your suggestion. Thanks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boonah Qld
    Age
    82
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Before I will comment specifially on the proposed repair, I would like to know the Following"

    "just used the stick welder and stuck them together again."

    Did you use a DC welder and did you use proprietry cast iron welding electrodes on your shop repairs? Having stick welded probably in excess of a 100 cast iron jobs I can assure you no two repairs are exactly the same.
    Cast stick welds resonably when procedures are followed and the weldment does not vary substaintially from thick to thin. It is not a ductile metal and contracts quite rapidly uder cooling, and is suspectible to cracking and complete fracture around the thin areas. Perhaps you encountered heavy section items.
    The electrodes I used then typically were Castcraft 55 s or their equaivalent. This was to take advantage of their soft ductile deposit whick can be machined drilled and tapped.The nickel content of the electrodes help cope with the contarcation cracking problems.

    The nature and loaction of the tractor engine cracking shall be critical to the type of electrode used.

    If cracking does not extend into the water jacket or cylinders it should be OK.
    I can say more if I see some photos.
    Cheers
    Grahame
    Ok Graham I'll show photos of some of the engine damage. I think my welder is AC. I bought it in 1974 and it has never caused any problems. My new 3 in one has a DC stick and can swap polarity if needed. There is a large hole into the cylinder block and a crack in the head. (No photo of the crack.) But this is a very low compression slow reving engine. I'll have a go even if I have to glue in sleeves out of something else. The engine is in 4 parts. The head, cylinder block, crankcase, and sump. The only issue I have is that all the nuts are rusted and difficult to grip. I don't want to cut off the bolts that hold the cylinder block to the crankcase as they are special being about 10 inches (250mm) long threaded each end and they also hold the main bearing caps down having a "head" about halfway down. I guess they are high tensile steel and could be made on a lathe if I had to. We do want to run the engine if possible to drive an old double dump chaff cutter. I have an mate with a 1923 Renault truck engine and may have to use it as a substitute. The tractor has a full bonnet so the engine cannot be seen. Using a torch there seems to be one cylinder totally rusted. The crackshaft is interesting being fabricated from steel. The journals appear to be set into the arms with an interference fit.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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