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10th Oct 2018, 08:18 PM #31Most Valued Member
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Another welder and a toy at that. I know you are finding it difficult to settle on a process that works for you, but a lot of people have given you much sound advice over the years, but you still seem determined that a shiny new welder that is cheap will solve all. I doubt that that Italco will have the oomph to weld 3mm successfully.
Sorry if I seem negative but I really hate see you throw good money after bad on machines that are inadequate or you not taking the time to master them.
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10th Oct 2018, 09:57 PM #32Diamond Member
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I agree with Karl, why would you even bother with something like that? To make a welder spool gun compatible is not a difficult task for someone competent, why you even think you need a spool gun i'm not sure...
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10th Oct 2018, 10:16 PM #33Golden Member
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Jeez gazza - you're a hard man to keep still that's for sure!
I wouldn't have bought that, but now you own it - best of luck.
I think you will be able to weld 3mm, but your fit up will need to be just right to get good welds. Bevel down the corners, leave a 1mm gap between plates to be welded to help penetration, etc. It will be even more important to make sure your metal is clean to help the weld metal wet in on the sides, because you just won't have the amps to flow the weld around.
I'm glad you're shying away from the fuel tank.
Regarding the canopy, 4 or even 3 mm is going to be pretty heavy - it looks like the boat is a fair size, but consider your boat stability, particularly the higher you get off the deck. You can get away with pretty light weight material if you a smart about the bracketing/struts etc. Use tig for joins in the light stuff, mig for the longer welds onto heavier base metal.
Cheers
Mick
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10th Oct 2018, 10:33 PM #34Most Valued Member
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Karl and Com this is just a little toy to muck around with if it welds alloy great if it doesnt i will still use it, just the other day i was working on my smaller boat and i ran into a rusty bolt i thought bloody hell i sold my mig ha so i needed another cheapie for small jobs like seized bolts etc... i only bought it because it claims to weld aluminium weather thats true or not we will see its not a great loss it will get used
Mick thanks and yeah i used the miller calculator it will use the full amps for 3mm alloy if it welds it, i was planning on building the canopy with all open corner welds fit up should be ok with 3mm sheet i also plan on welding somthing around 30x30mm or there abouts as inner bracing around the hard top roof, the windows are a large portion that will be cut out and 3mm perspex fitted
The top half will just be alloy framing either from flat sheet or possibly from small SHS tubing unsure yet i will see how it feels when i build it, as for the very top i am thinking of using 1.6mm alloy sheet
The boat is 5.5 meters it was originally a half cabin boat i cut the top off the whole cabin weighed atlease 120kg the roof on the cabin was solid fibreglass the winds were 4mm real glass and very heavy
When i go on the laptop i'll post a pic of the boat before i started
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11th Oct 2018, 12:32 AM #35Most Valued Member
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Just had a crack using the booklet settings and it ran a bead no gaps no messy welds it was a little cold because i set it for 10 gauge which the booklet uses on a scale and i had no clue what 10 gauge was in metric, the weld is thin and high i thought i may have had to much wire feed so i lowered it one setting and burnt back the wire causing the birds nest, test piece was 6mm or 8mm angle alloy its the only piece i could find in the shed that was cut
i will make it clear the welder is not yet set up for aluminium. this was just a muck around to see if i could get a weld, i know all the to do's teflon liner etc...
will do further testing once i get the teflon liner and set it up properly, good to see it can weld aluminium tho and the booklet is a huge improvement over there last booklet with the 185I, from the one weld i ran seem the voltage and wire feed on the chart for aluminium actually work together
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11th Oct 2018, 10:58 AM #36Golden Member
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just google metal gauge thickness and you will get a chart of gauge numbers vs mm. 10 gauge is around 3.6mm.
If your bead is thin and high, you need to increase voltage and probably also wire speed. If you're actually trying to join 6 or 8mm - just turn volts/wirespeed up as high as it will go and see what happens.
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11th Oct 2018, 11:04 AM #37
Gazza,
I agree with Karl,but also will add this.
Gazza,
It has to be said that your problem with your welding lays within yourself, not the machines you seem to be upgrading on an ongoing basis.
If you won the Lotto tomorrow and were able to purchase the very best of what is available, those machines’ would not give you the result your desire. High technology and expensive for sure but the electronics won’t do the basics for you.
Such machines cannot provide knowledge, understanding, and techniques.
Those experiences need to be developed within and by your own self.
In these days of widespread Internet based information the basics of welding are truly out there but also are the sales pitches of those who will willingly deceive beginners to sell machines and accessories the home DIYer does not really need.
I suggest:
Get some one on one welding instruction,.
Do a Tafe course
Buy some well regarded welding instructional books = The Lincoln procedure hand book of welding and Lincoln Metals and How to Weld Them are but two.
Above all find out what the essential basics are and learn and use them because without them you never progress despite the cost or the features of the welding machine.
GrahameLast edited by Grahame Collins; 11th Oct 2018 at 12:50 PM. Reason: korrecting mi por splleung
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11th Oct 2018, 12:00 PM #38Most Valued Member
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11th Oct 2018, 06:02 PM #39Most Valued Member
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Guys all i really needed was a goo starting point i know a few of you gave really good advice and i tried it but i often found my self wondering off on settings than i was at the point of am i doing and than i am lost again
what i needed was a machine with digital read out, a good chart that actually works for that machine and a good booklet with the chart inside of it, now with this little mig 150 i set me dials to whatever the chart recommends and bam it worked!!! who would have thought.... the booklet for the last mig welder was off by a mile on the booklet chart all i needed were to correct settings so i can work on my welds
in these pictures is 30 or 35mm 3mm flat bar lap joint i set the machine to 10 gauge which is 3.5mm according to the lower gauge on the page and away i went it was that simple
i had a major problem tho i picked up a new teflon liner tried to fit it i had cut it short and kept birds nesting i never realised i had to actually disassemble the gun to feed the liner up into the torch neck so i put the new steel liner back in and had to use that
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11th Oct 2018, 06:06 PM #40Most Valued Member
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forgot i had to tensioner to tight as well i loosen it way way off even than it was still feeding i tried to weld and it stopped feeding i thought not a bloody again another birds nest but actually the roller was slipping so i gave it 1 turn and it worked great no birds nesting
here is the much better booklet/chart
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12th Oct 2018, 09:42 AM #41Intermediate Member
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in these pictures is 30 or 35mm 3mm flat bar lap joint i set the machine to 10 gauge which is 3.5mm according to the lower gauge on the page and away i went it was that simple
In the quote above from post # 39, you may believe that "is was that simple", but it was not right.
Look at your welds, the filler material is 'sitting' on the base material with very little penetration. Look closely at the left hand end of the weld in the last image. When viewed at full scale, it is very clear that there is inadequate penetration.
You have been given good advice from a number of members in this thread, but you continue to ignore it. If you had spent the time you have wasted (in chopping and changing equipment) in getting some tutition and then practicing and reviewing your progresss with your tutor, you would be approaching the standard required to safely undertake the projects you are proposing.
In my opinion, your skills are not even close to that required to weld an aluminium petrol tank.
I am sorry if this upsets you, but you will not reach the required standard until you accept the advice you have been given and get some hands-on training.
BobLast edited by Oldgreybeard; 12th Oct 2018 at 09:44 AM. Reason: correct typo
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12th Oct 2018, 10:44 AM #42Most Valued Member
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Bob the left side of the weld is where i finished the weld maybe i didn't sit on that last bit long enough I'm not sure because I'm not a professional welder nor am i trying to be one, i am just your average person mate trying to give something a go, i don't have a $10,000 welder, i don't have 30 years welding experience but i am trying giving it a go
i will etch the welded piece later today hopefully it means something to your critique Bob and your standards
you guy's seem to be flaming a person that has no skill level on a profession basis of welding no formal training at all but someone trying to give something a go, i have taking on board all the knowledge possible but tafe is out of the question and its often raised "you need to go to tafe" i have told you guys over and over i cannot go to tafe for personal reason's this is why i try and learn by my self
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12th Oct 2018, 10:58 AM #43Most Valued Member
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You cannot argue with anything that Oldgreybeard has said.
Many of us have been gently saying what Grahame and Oldgreybeard posted clearly in black and white for some time (years in fact), but unfortunately the lure of charts and digital readouts has overpowered sound advice from people that have actually been there and done it.
Honestly, the idea of Gazza welding up his own fuel tank scares me as does him building a cabin or canopy for his boat as both those items are critical and could lead to serious injury when they fail.
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12th Oct 2018, 11:43 AM #44Most Valued Member
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Karl, What is the difference between Sydney Tools hiring a welder to write out there chart to a customer buying there machine and working out there own chart?
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12th Oct 2018, 12:27 PM #45Most Valued Member
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Tried what Mick said earlier and upped the wire feed speed it seems to have helped the feeding of the wire and it has put more heat into the weld its actually cratering the top piece of aluminium now it was doing this earlier but not as much, now i have full penetration thru the aluminium to the other side
so the chart may be a little off but it gave me a starting point the chart recommended 4 on voltage and 7.5 on wire feed speed, these welds were done 4 on voltage 9 on wire feed speed, i did max out the wire feed speed at 10 but it blew a hole thru the 3mm material
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