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21st Aug 2018, 10:42 PM #61Most Valued Member
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Com those read out's would really help me i think not so as in to dial right into the .00 number as the calculator but rather to see where i am at on the welders scale so i know i i have gone to far one way or another in a setting
Mick i am handy with the TIG welder steel is piece of cake to weld but my fit up is poor when i have multiple pieces of cross members that need to be cut to the exact half a millimeter and i can only weld at the table in a left to right or right to left motion so doing vertical inside corner welds on a trailer is difficult i think i am limited by my cheap DC tig machine tho its a Mechpro 140 stick/tig i do have a AC/DC Chinese tig bubt i have not tried to use it on DC yet
i may look into a better DC tig machine i will have a look around now
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21st Aug 2018, 10:51 PM #62Diamond Member
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- Aug 2006
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- Melbourne
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As you know you will need to use gas with the tig so is there a reason you don't wan't to use gas with the mig? It will make your welding experience so much easier and you probably won't need to buy another machine.
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21st Aug 2018, 11:08 PM #63Most Valued Member
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Com i own a speedgas argon cylinder i did have a bunnings argon mix but took it back if i were to buy one or get another rom bunnings thats another $300-$350 out of the budget
i have spent quiet a few hours on the Repco/Mechpro DC tig 140 i feel comfortable with that little machine, i just looked at a few new models (Unimig and Italco) both state they dont have the sticky scratch start which would be advantageous over my little 140, the bigger AC machine i would rather just leave in one spot where it is in the shed due to its size
maybe i am focusing on what i can't do rather than what i can do?
last time i tried to stick weld was with that Mishto welder years ago i kept sticking the rod than blowing holes and the arc kept extinguishing was a nightmare but i'm willing to try again with a machine that doesn't stick
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21st Aug 2018, 11:12 PM #64Golden Member
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- Feb 2010
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- Ballina, NSW
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Good fit up always helps. Even with a MIG you might be able to fill gaps, but then you'll get more distortion (because there is more hot metal that needs to shrink).
MIG uphill on thin sheet metal isn't the most fun thing in the world either - so no matter what - there's going to be a learning curve. Personally, I always found that the most challenging welding position. MIG downhill is nice and quick, particularly if not a structurally important weld (in either case make sure the gun is pointing upwards a bit, not horizontal). I agree that MIG would be easiest/best, but stick would do the job (vertical up, not down due to dripping slag) - in short runs. TIG would be fine (you can fill big gaps with TIG no worries if you have to), but slower and sometimes awkward in tight spaces.
Honestly, I'd try and master your stick welder for structural welds, then fill in the non-essential bits with what ever bird you can spit out of the MIG.
Mick
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21st Aug 2018, 11:32 PM #65Most Valued Member
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Is there such a thing as learner stick rods or rods that are easy to learn with?
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22nd Aug 2018, 01:27 AM #66Most Valued Member
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As a general rule, sticking rods I found to be caused by low amperage. I taught a group of unemployed to weld with stick, basically hold the rod at about 45 degrees and strike the rod, once you've got it started, rest the rod on the surface and let it burn at it's own rate. Don't try to join metal together at first, just burn rods onto a piece of plate, just to get used to it. This is called PAD welding.
Meters on a gauge are a gimick, once you've got the welder set, it's just a matter of fine tuning. Some days, my welder needs to be turned right up to get a weld, another day it has to be turned right down, voltage drop or fluctuations being the cause.
I think your best bet is to go to a TAFE college and do a course, or to find someone who knows what they are doing to set it up and assist you with welding. Once you've got the gist of it all, it's a breeze, just a matter of knowing what to do.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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22nd Aug 2018, 07:37 AM #67Most Valued Member
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I'll try the stick welder today i looked at the lincoln 6013 rods it said its good for filling large gaps and can be used on thin sheet metal, i never thought u could stick weld sheet metal
The problem i had with stick welding was feeding the rod in steady i was to heavy and either poked the rod thru the material or it stopped arcing and burnt back
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22nd Aug 2018, 04:01 PM #68Most Valued Member
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
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I sold the Italco today to another member hope he enjoys it more than i did, i picked up a UNIMIG 180 MMA welder with a packet o Gemini 2.5mm rods 6012 i wanted 6013 but that is what the lady sold me
when i last tried to stick weld 7-8 years ago i burnt holes and couldnt get the stick to arc and was all over the place, strait out of the box i set my amps and bingo she welded faultlessly i was a bit to hot around 70-80amps i backed it down to 60-65amps and ran some welds most were not the best looking but i was trying to figure out my stick distance in and out than i was trying to work out if a C or a back andd forth motion worked best i ended up on a up and down while moving forward motion i also had to adjust the speed i moved forward at
hows this last weld?
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22nd Aug 2018, 04:02 PM #69Most Valued Member
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Some more pics
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22nd Aug 2018, 08:50 PM #70Golden Member
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Not too bad. Particularly from your last post. So you have weld going in both directions, in that earlier post - does that mean you're also practicing left to right and right to left? Good if you are.
The weld could be a bit hotter, particularly at the starts - so you should loiter a bit at the beginning.
You should practice a few vertical welds - keep a really close arc, keep the rod pointing slightly upward the whole way.
Regarding rods - the gemini 6012's a great all purpose. The 6013's are better on thin stuff, but tend to have more slag, which can be an issue, and lead to more inclusions if you're not careful. So I reckon you were sold the right ones.
Mick
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22nd Aug 2018, 09:07 PM #71Most Valued Member
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Awesome thanks Mick, Yeah i can tig with left or right hand so i was seeing if i could stick with both hands and watching to see which hand was better i think left hand weld running right to left was better but that may be because i had the sun over my right shoulder and i could see just 10mm in front of the pool
i tried a little hotter but it was eating craters before the pool built up enough to fill the gap with weld i was using i think around 55amps possibly 60amps at the hottest for 4mm steel i think i put it down around 45-50amps for the 2.5mm to 3mm steel RHS/SHS weld, that last good weld i noticed the slag was getting caught along the edge of the weld it was hard to remove had to use a hammer and flat head screw driver to pick it all off, would this be because i didn't stay long enough over this one section long enough before moving along?
this little welder is kick ass it feels so comfortable to weld with its so smooth but i did have a arc starting problem but i put that down to my rusty material
i have been watching youtube videos last night and today on how to arc weld one thing i picked up on was my position of the torch i have it at the right angle up and down in a left to right or vise versa weld but i am laying the torch over 45 degrees into the weld direction is this bad? i think its a bad technique i have left so far but will wait to hear from u guys who know how to weld
it was quiet windy today and surprisingly i was able to weld perfectly fine that is a bonus no gas bottle and no mig machine needed, i am quiet happy with my success
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23rd Aug 2018, 05:35 PM #72Most Valued Member
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Mick when u mentioned welding vertical should the torch be higher than the arc or other way around? i just tried to weld vertical but it was really hard i couldn't keep a steady pace as the weld looked like it was huge but when i finished that huge weld was all slag and if i slowed down it looked as i the molten pool was going to burn thru the material
The lady at the welding shop yesterday said if i was welding vertical i needed a different set of rods so i went back this afternoon, told her i was welding vertical and she sold me the same rods as yesterday
Rods are Gemini 12, 6012
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23rd Aug 2018, 05:36 PM #73Most Valued Member
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So i ran a few horizontal beads and it worked fine
EDIT: forgot to mention i am finding it incredibly hard to start the arc some times taking 10 strikes or more is there a trick?
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23rd Aug 2018, 06:56 PM #74Philomath in training
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Starting the arc can be difficult if there is a circuit in there to reduce the Open Circuit Voltage (OCV) when not welding (electric shock prevention). I started on an old transformer machine so I'm used to a quick jab but that does not always work too well if OCV reduction is on. Some welders have settings that can turn it off but the technique you need to practice is as if you are striking a match (that is, a flick along on an arc).
For your verticals, the bead should be below the arc. Effectively, you are supporting the molten pool with the force of the arc and pushing it up. (So handpiece below the arc, electrode pointing up)They will look lumpy.
I'm glad to see that you are trying MMAW again. Too many people think that all problems in the world can be solved with MIG, and also that welding (with MIG) is just point and shoot. For occasional use, mastering stick is much more rewarding.
Michael
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23rd Aug 2018, 07:05 PM #75Most Valued Member
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Hey Michael i am really enjoying stick welding its something i really want to learn i just get a little dissapointed when i cant achive what i set out to do its a kick to the nuts om down but not out yet, i ran 2 meters of stitch welds today on 3mm 35mm flat bar from bunnings
I was running at 40-45amps do u think i was to cold? I upped the amps and it seemed like the weld was dripping furiously this is what made me move the pool quicker in a panic
My.machine came with a set of keys to turn off the VRD is it a good option to turn it off?
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