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20th Aug 2018, 11:00 PM #46Most Valued Member
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I,ve decided im going to sell the italco machine guys i'm looking at getting the cigweld 155/185 3 in 1 welder just wondering if anyone knows if the cigweld machines have starting point charts inside of the machine covers?
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20th Aug 2018, 11:19 PM #47Diamond Member
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Perhaps before you sell the italco machine you should try using gas and some 0.9 wire with it.
I wouldn't worry too much about starting point charts, in my opinion they have always been useless. I've used some high end machines worth over $10000 with the option of setting the material thickness and thought it was a complete waste of time.
Everyone has a different welding style, different stick out lengths, travel speed, torch angle, different nozzles, worn out tips, worn out lines, different line voltages. There are just too many variables with mig.
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21st Aug 2018, 12:23 AM #48Most Valued Member
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Com vc the problem for me is i dont know what a good weld is so finding the right setting is next to impossible if i donno what im looking at, if i can find voltages and wire feed speed or even amps for my Omega wire it should give me a really good and close starting point
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21st Aug 2018, 12:56 AM #49Most Valued Member
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Gazza, surely there is someone in the area who's a competent welder that could come around and help you set it up. Wish I'd have known it was going to be this much trouble for you, I'd have come around and set it up for you, as I was over there.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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21st Aug 2018, 01:02 AM #50Most Valued Member
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Hey Kryn thing is i weld every now and again so whatever knowledge i gain now its lost in 3 months when i decide to build something again so my theory is if i get a welder with digital voltage and amp read outs i can just open up the Miller welding calculator pre set my settings and away i go
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21st Aug 2018, 12:46 PM #51Most Valued Member
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It would be nice if it worked that way Gazza, but it just doesn't. As far as starting points for your self shielded flux core, you already have them (I gave them to you in an earlier post), or you could use the Miller calculator, or the Lincoln calculator. Your Omega wire is actually Blue Demon and the link to the recommended settings is here. Welding Material Sales, Inc. - Your Source for Welding Consumables Self shielded flux core doesn't vary that much between brands as far as voltage and wire feed go (If it did then the charts you seek would be useless), you will notice that the recommended settings for the Blue Demon wire are pretty much what Miller and Lincoln suggest for their wires. Note, that the highest recommended voltage is once more 18V until you get all the way up to 1.6mm wire.
I have welders with accurate digital Voltage and wire feed meters and while they allow me to reproduce a setting I like, I cannot use them alone to set the welder, (you too could do the same with just your dials once you get a setting sorted out). I also have a Synergic machine. It gets close, but I still need to fine tune the parameters.
It will not matter what welder you buy, you still need to learn to set it and drive it, (I don't think the Cigweld has a chart by the way, there is no mention of it in the instruction manual that I could see). GMAW and FCAW will always take more machine set up than stick welding as they have two primary variables (Voltage and Wire Speed), while stick welding has only one (Amperage). Like death and taxes, you just can't avoid it.
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21st Aug 2018, 01:02 PM #52Most Valued Member
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See that link helps me Karl it gives me the basic starting voltage and amps without knowing my voltage and amps on the machine i could be at 15volts i could be starting at 22volts without the digital read out i am totally lost, with the digital read out i can start at the recommended settings than i can slowly work my way up or down on both as i can see where i'm going and how far i'm going away from those settings without it i may be at the moon and wondering why i'm lost... i could be miles out on one setting and nearly perfect on the other or i maybe totally miles out on both settings and think i may just be a smidgen off those recommended settings i just would not know
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21st Aug 2018, 02:42 PM #53
You could always buy yourself a cheap digital panel volt meter and fix that into your welder. Then you have the digital readout you seem to want.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/253077418749
You can even get combined Volt - Amp meters for not much more.
But as Karl and Grahame and Mick said, you still have to fine-tune the settings based on the circumstances.
I don't think you will be able to buy a machine that allows you to avoid learning to weld I'm afraid. The biggest variable isn;t the machine, its you. You have to develop muscle memory for hand speed, stick-out, angle x 2, direction, and the mental control 'circuit' to adjust these based on what you see and hear, as well considerable judgement as to the voltage and feed based on material thickness. Even there, charts only help you when you weld together two IDENTICAL thickness material. The moment you weld a 1.5mm piece to a 4mm piece, the chart no longer help you at all. Your brain then needs to determine the settings and your eyes, ears and hands need to control the other variables....
You WILL have to get tuition and practice - no way around that.
... just trying to save you money and further frustration - with a more expensive machine....Cheers, Joe
retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....
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21st Aug 2018, 03:00 PM #54Most Valued Member
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JHovel is right in all he says.
You already hooked your multimeter up to this welder I believe, which would have given you the voltage information that you require, (note that just knowing the minimum and maximum voltage produced by your machine will not give you an accurate idea of mid voltages. Some dials are linear, while others increase exponentially). Write down the voltage produced for each number or division and from thereon in you will have all you need.
Don't make the whole process harder than it needs to be, remember the KISS principle
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21st Aug 2018, 05:22 PM #55Most Valued Member
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Yeah this is where i cannot work out my machine voltage has 1-10, wire feed has 1-10, if it actually said on or near the dials 16v, 17v, 18v, 1m/min, ,2m/min, 3m/min wire feed it would take a lot of the farting around out of me getting use to the machine
if i have a digital read out machine i can pre set to the calculator settings and fine turn my self from there on but trying to work out the starting points from 1-10 is difficult for a learner, i tried the 50% setting on both dials and i kept going walk about's with the dials i need a simplified more user friendly machine
i tried checking the machines voltage with the multimeter but u have to be welding to read the voltage i only have 2 eyes lol
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21st Aug 2018, 05:30 PM #56Most Valued Member
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You know even a welder like this would help me a ton to know where my settings are
https://www.gasweld.com.au/media/cat...11307.1523.jpg
with my current welder i have no idea what voltage i am at i don't even have the closes idea because i have no way of checking the only thing i can do is measure my wire length over 1/10th of a minute
i just went to look at that Procraft welder and the dials actually say 16v 18v etc... wire feed 1m/min 2m/min etc...
my current welder just outright says 1 thru to 10 settings i could be spooling 15m/min at number 7 for all i know but i don't know unless i measure it, the voltage could bereading 21 volts at setting 3 or all i know again i don't know because there is nothing telling me clearly where i'm at on settings
i need starting points guys and the welding calculators provide those numbers i just need a machine that can convert what the machine is reading and display it to me in a easier fashion that i can actually work out
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21st Aug 2018, 07:14 PM #57Most Valued Member
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21st Aug 2018, 08:59 PM #58Most Valued Member
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Jack to Karl's comment i have tried this my phone went flat and i only got one reading o 16volts, if i have to do this 10 times over it will drive me crazy this is what i set out to do in the beginning of the thread, its not easy setting up a mobile phone to record than tapping the multimeter into the wires than trying to figure out a stable voltage as it varies i need more than its variance i think from memory that 16v were jumping from 15-17v as i was welding so its only a rough indication
the Italco is a great welder it has ran some really smooth gas welds for me well they appeared nice and clean just at this stage i cannot understand the machine my skills are not advanced enough yet i need something simple like ABC... lol
im looking at these 2 welders i like the CW 2 years warranty both digital readouts however the Procraft is $100 cheaper and more amps
Cigweld 155 mig https://www.cigweld.com.au/product/weldskill-155/
https://www.gasweld.com.au/procraft-...t-25mm2-511307
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21st Aug 2018, 09:29 PM #59Diamond Member
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The welders at work actually display the amps and volts for 10 seconds after the trigger is released which is handy, most of the cheap welders will stop reading when you release the trigger which is pretty much useless. With that Cigweld 155 machine I would be a bit concerned about the duty cycle, if you exceed the duty cycle you are going to add another problem to the mix.
You really need someone to show you in person or do some sort of course,
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21st Aug 2018, 10:30 PM #60Golden Member
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A lot of people talk about TIG and MMA (stick) being hard to to get the hang of - which is true from a manual dexterity/coordination point of view, but this thread just demonstrates that MIG is by far the most complex in terms of variables and actually being able to coach someone remotely to get to a good result. MIG requires much more diagnosis of what is going wrong with a weld and the knowledge to adjust the settings accordingly.
Gazza why don't you just stick weld? The welders are way cheaper, a few packs of rods will build you a whole trailer, and best of all, once you have a good looking weld you can be pretty much guaranteed that it IS a good weld, unlike MIG. If you're too wobbly with a full length rod - just cut it in half.
Mick
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