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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Silver soldering on the cheap?

    I have a need to do regular fairly small silver soldering jobs, and much more rarely small brazing jobs. I was looking at the Bullfinch torch that uses LPG but wondering if there's something cheaper (they are around $380). By small job as an example brass 1/2" pipe under 2mm W/T silver soldered to brass plate under 2mm thick 40mm square.

  2. #2
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    Default

    If you use oxy with LPG you'll need a good supply of oxy!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Default

    This torch doesn't need oxygen. But it's probably overkill for the silver soldering sizes I'm doing;
    https://youtu.be/43f8AfjkpJw?t=4m14s
    Certainly more pricey than I'm hoping for.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    I bought my bullfinch torch directly from the UK, If l remember correctly l paid about $200.
    l did have to change the fitting to suit our gas bottles though.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Adelaide, Australia
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    Yeah they are about UKP100 plus freight, but the UK and Ireland use a slightly different POL connector, and yes not compatible.

    I was originally looking at a MAPP torch or the Tradeflame torches that Bunnings sell, but not sure how cost effective they would be buying cylinders all the time. I can't find any details on how long the cylinders last.

  6. #6
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gassy View Post
    Yeah they are about UKP100 plus freight, but the UK and Ireland use a slightly different POL connector, and yes not compatible.

    I was originally looking at a MAPP torch or the Tradeflame torches that Bunnings sell, but not sure how cost effective they would be buying cylinders all the time. I can't find any details on how long the cylinders last.
    I have MAPP, LPG and a small Butane torch. For very small work (wires and <1/4" diam pipe/tube) I find the Butane torch the quickest and easiest to do brazing with but I doubt it can put out enough heat to do the "brass on brass" work you require. I'm using the MAPP torch mainly for heating when I want to get small things apart and I did all the 20mm copper pipe gas line to my shed with it OK. The LPG is used to heat larger things and if I really want to heat things up I have a mains gas powered forge. The MAPP cylinders seem to last long enough (I buy 1-2 cylinders per year) but that's probably because I have a range of heating options that I can use specific to the task.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cairns, Q
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    506

    Default

    Some gas consumption figures for common Tradeflame propane burners on page 26 here:

    http://media.brintex.com/Occurrence/129/Brochure/3762/brochure.pdf

    Sorry, can't seem to get a direct link to page 26. You apparently have to go to page 26 after you open the catalogue in the link.

    Frank

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Sydney
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    I was faced with the same decision recently, and couldn't quite bring myself to spend the cash on that Bullfinch. I ended up going to Gameco and putting an LPG torch/nozzle/pipe/tank connector together for a couple of hundred dollars. I specifically wanted something that would run on LPG and connect to my BBQ tanks to avoid having to get yet another gas cylinder type in the workshop.

    The Gameco website seems to have changed, and I can't see what I ordered. They show this one, but it's for gas and air/oxy, mine is gas only. https://www.gameco.com.au/product/yi...-piece-2401-3/ If you're interested I can take a photo of what I actually got, it was a lot cheaper than the Bullfinch.

    For soft soldering, silver soldering, and light brazing this set up has been great, and it's much faster to set up and get running than the oxy set. I got a series of nozzles from very small to "big mother", so I can match the heat to the job. The LPG only (no oxy) is fine for soldering and flow brazing of smallish parts. Fillet brazing (stack of coins style) needs the oxy acetylene set. The torch is also useful for heating things for shrinking etc.

    Graham.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
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    Default

    I have soldered up yo 1-1/8" refrigeration pipe with a Rothenberger mapgas but it did struggle to reach temp. It would never had made it if it was outside the ceiling space. But having said that I was regularly use mapgas up to 3/4 outside for smaller number of brazes.
    I get my tips from bunnings same as rothenberger but cheaper..can even get them from USA cheaper than what trade sales oulet sell them for

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Adelaide, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbikerider View Post
    If you're interested I can take a photo of what I actually got, it was a lot cheaper than the Bullfinch.
    Thanks Graham, a photo would be good, and of the nozzles if you could.

    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
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    1,941

    Default Silver soldering on the cheap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gassy View Post
    I was originally looking at a MAPP torch or the Tradeflame torches that Bunnings sell, but not sure how cost effective they would be buying cylinders all the time. I can't find any details on how long the cylinders last.
    They seem to last ages. A turbo torch would be perfect for silver soldering the brass parts you described in your original post.
    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Sydney
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    Default

    Gassy,

    Here's a couple of photos of the Yildiz brand torch I got from Gameco. I selected the parts from this brochure https://www.gameco.com.au/wp-content...ochure-113.pdf

    It looks like they may only sell the torch with the trigger now, as in the link I gave earlier. I was wrong about that torch, it isn't gas/air, it's got two controls, one to set the idle and one to set the flow when you pull the trigger. In hindsight, I should have got this version because it's safer when you put it down to re-set the work or something. The one without the trigger stays on the working setting (usually full) unless you re-adjust the flow control knob.

    I've also had a Primus brand torch for 40 years, which is what I use for finer work. See last picture.

    Hope this helps,
    Graham.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria
    Posts
    606

    Default Hare & Forbes current gas burner price

    Hey Gassy,

    Am currently pondering this deal https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K075

    Might be of interest to you if you have not bought anything yet.

    Bill

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    4,529

    Default

    For those who own or are considering a purchase.

    Some of the manufacturers /sellers are a bit free and loose with their descriptions.

    Mapp gas and Map gas

    While the names sound the same Mapp gas and Map gas are different gases with entirely different composition and properties.

    Mapp gas is no longer manufactured. The last manufacturing plant in the North Americas was shut down in 2008.

    Genuine MAPP gas can be used in combination with oxygen for heating, soldering, brazing and even welding due to its high flame temperature of 2925C (5300F) in oxygen

    Current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes. These versions are composed almost entirely of Propylene with minuscule impurities of propane (<0.5%).

    For some the terms Mapp gas are Map gas are interchangeable. In practice they are not. Even Mapp-Pro gas is nowhere near the real Mapp gas in temperature.

    I had Googled the temp figures for Map and twenty minutes later cant find them.

    In any case it gets down to fuel gas to oxygen ratios.

    Acetylene; 1 to 1
    MAPP; 2.5 to 1
    Natural Gas; 2 to 1
    Propane; 4.5 to 1

    Flame temperature generatedyes I am too tired to change them back to Celsius )

    Acetylene; 6300F
    MAPP (the real stuff) ; 5300F
    Natural Gas; 4600F
    Propane; 4600F

    Grahame

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Sydney
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    Default

    Grahame, thanks for this very useful information.

    Do you know what gas is in the LPG BBQ bottles? Is it propane?

    Edit: I just looked it up, in Australia LPG is propane. In other counties it can be a mix of propane and butane.

    Graham.

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