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Thread: Silver soldering on the cheap?
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11th May 2018, 08:03 PM #1New Member
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Silver soldering on the cheap?
I have a need to do regular fairly small silver soldering jobs, and much more rarely small brazing jobs. I was looking at the Bullfinch torch that uses LPG but wondering if there's something cheaper (they are around $380). By small job as an example brass 1/2" pipe under 2mm W/T silver soldered to brass plate under 2mm thick 40mm square.
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12th May 2018, 06:19 PM #2Banned
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If you use oxy with LPG you'll need a good supply of oxy!
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12th May 2018, 07:33 PM #3New Member
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This torch doesn't need oxygen. But it's probably overkill for the silver soldering sizes I'm doing;
https://youtu.be/43f8AfjkpJw?t=4m14s
Certainly more pricey than I'm hoping for.
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12th May 2018, 09:08 PM #4Senior Member
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I bought my bullfinch torch directly from the UK, If l remember correctly l paid about $200.
l did have to change the fitting to suit our gas bottles though.
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13th May 2018, 11:30 AM #5New Member
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Yeah they are about UKP100 plus freight, but the UK and Ireland use a slightly different POL connector, and yes not compatible.
I was originally looking at a MAPP torch or the Tradeflame torches that Bunnings sell, but not sure how cost effective they would be buying cylinders all the time. I can't find any details on how long the cylinders last.
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13th May 2018, 12:14 PM #6Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I have MAPP, LPG and a small Butane torch. For very small work (wires and <1/4" diam pipe/tube) I find the Butane torch the quickest and easiest to do brazing with but I doubt it can put out enough heat to do the "brass on brass" work you require. I'm using the MAPP torch mainly for heating when I want to get small things apart and I did all the 20mm copper pipe gas line to my shed with it OK. The LPG is used to heat larger things and if I really want to heat things up I have a mains gas powered forge. The MAPP cylinders seem to last long enough (I buy 1-2 cylinders per year) but that's probably because I have a range of heating options that I can use specific to the task.
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13th May 2018, 12:15 PM #7Golden Member
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Some gas consumption figures for common Tradeflame propane burners on page 26 here:
http://media.brintex.com/Occurrence/129/Brochure/3762/brochure.pdf
Sorry, can't seem to get a direct link to page 26. You apparently have to go to page 26 after you open the catalogue in the link.
Frank
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14th May 2018, 11:48 AM #8Senior Member
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I was faced with the same decision recently, and couldn't quite bring myself to spend the cash on that Bullfinch. I ended up going to Gameco and putting an LPG torch/nozzle/pipe/tank connector together for a couple of hundred dollars. I specifically wanted something that would run on LPG and connect to my BBQ tanks to avoid having to get yet another gas cylinder type in the workshop.
The Gameco website seems to have changed, and I can't see what I ordered. They show this one, but it's for gas and air/oxy, mine is gas only. https://www.gameco.com.au/product/yi...-piece-2401-3/ If you're interested I can take a photo of what I actually got, it was a lot cheaper than the Bullfinch.
For soft soldering, silver soldering, and light brazing this set up has been great, and it's much faster to set up and get running than the oxy set. I got a series of nozzles from very small to "big mother", so I can match the heat to the job. The LPG only (no oxy) is fine for soldering and flow brazing of smallish parts. Fillet brazing (stack of coins style) needs the oxy acetylene set. The torch is also useful for heating things for shrinking etc.
Graham.
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18th May 2018, 03:42 PM #9Most Valued Member
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I have soldered up yo 1-1/8" refrigeration pipe with a Rothenberger mapgas but it did struggle to reach temp. It would never had made it if it was outside the ceiling space. But having said that I was regularly use mapgas up to 3/4 outside for smaller number of brazes.
I get my tips from bunnings same as rothenberger but cheaper..can even get them from USA cheaper than what trade sales oulet sell them for
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18th May 2018, 04:03 PM #10New Member
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19th May 2018, 05:38 PM #11Most Valued Member
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21st May 2018, 01:13 PM #12Senior Member
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Gassy,
Here's a couple of photos of the Yildiz brand torch I got from Gameco. I selected the parts from this brochure https://www.gameco.com.au/wp-content...ochure-113.pdf
It looks like they may only sell the torch with the trigger now, as in the link I gave earlier. I was wrong about that torch, it isn't gas/air, it's got two controls, one to set the idle and one to set the flow when you pull the trigger. In hindsight, I should have got this version because it's safer when you put it down to re-set the work or something. The one without the trigger stays on the working setting (usually full) unless you re-adjust the flow control knob.
I've also had a Primus brand torch for 40 years, which is what I use for finer work. See last picture.
Hope this helps,
Graham.
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20th Nov 2018, 08:10 AM #13Golden Member
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Hare & Forbes current gas burner price
Hey Gassy,
Am currently pondering this deal https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K075
Might be of interest to you if you have not bought anything yet.
Bill
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22nd Nov 2018, 11:23 AM #14
For those who own or are considering a purchase.
Some of the manufacturers /sellers are a bit free and loose with their descriptions.
Mapp gas and Map gas
While the names sound the same Mapp gas and Map gas are different gases with entirely different composition and properties.
Mapp gas is no longer manufactured. The last manufacturing plant in the North Americas was shut down in 2008.
Genuine MAPP gas can be used in combination with oxygen for heating, soldering, brazing and even welding due to its high flame temperature of 2925°C (5300°F) in oxygen
Current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes. These versions are composed almost entirely of Propylene with minuscule impurities of propane (<0.5%).
For some the terms Mapp gas are Map gas are interchangeable. In practice they are not. Even Mapp-Pro gas is nowhere near the real Mapp gas in temperature.
I had Googled the temp figures for Map and twenty minutes later can’t find them.
In any case it gets down to fuel gas to oxygen ratios.
Acetylene; 1 to 1
MAPP; 2.5 to 1
Natural Gas; 2 to 1
Propane; 4.5 to 1
Flame temperature generatedyes I am too tired to change them back to Celsius )
Acetylene; 6300F
MAPP (the real stuff) ; 5300F
Natural Gas; 4600F
Propane; 4600F
Grahame
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22nd Nov 2018, 11:50 AM #15Senior Member
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Grahame, thanks for this very useful information.
Do you know what gas is in the LPG BBQ bottles? Is it propane?
Edit: I just looked it up, in Australia LPG is propane. In other counties it can be a mix of propane and butane.
Graham.
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