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Thread: Bossweld (Bunnings) Welder?
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29th Oct 2017, 03:29 PM #1Most Valued Member
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Bossweld (Bunnings) Welder?
Hi All,
I would like to get some form of electric welder. I've had oxy-LPG for over 30 years and it's great for brazing thin tube & RHS. Anything thicker is slow and gets a bit heavy on gas consumption. I've tried stick and MIG welding using friend's equipment with mixed results. I'd love to have the ability to TIG weld too, but I've never tried it. I have a mate who I'm hoping will teach me. Otherwise there's a TAFE nearby. I don't do a lot of welding, but I know I would take on more metal projects if I had the capability to do more than just brazing mild steel.
I can get this welder for just under $900 with a family staff discount:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/bossweld...elder_p6380047
Here's the manual:
https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9...f835b25987.pdf
Is this brand reasonable quality for the price?
Would that model be suitable for a hobbyist doing the occasional job?
CheersChris
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29th Oct 2017, 05:36 PM #2Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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I've said this a few times already but I'll say it again.
The "duty cycle" of a welder is one of the few indicators readily available to consumer to allow them to assess how ruggedised a welder is.
In practice "duty cycle" just means what % of your work time you can weld beads for before the thermal cutout kicks in.
As a DIYer it is unlikely that you will ever need a high duty cycle of itself, but the higher the duty cycle the more robust the welder has been designed and built (e.g. better components) to withstand the heat demands of running at high duty cycle. As well as the short term measure of ruggedness it is also a longer term measure and know doubt you will want the welder to last.
The Bunnings welder referred to above has a 200A duty cycle of 25% for the TIG and 15% for the the MMA side.
Compare that with this Token Tools welder, https://weldingstore.tokentools.com....er-tig200d-pro welder , which has
200A duty cycle of 60% for both TIG and MMA.
The main difference I can see is the BOSS welder does have AC (useful when working with Al.) whereas the Token Tools welder does not.
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29th Oct 2017, 06:35 PM #3Most Valued Member
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Thanks for the feedback Bob.
I don't disagree with you logic, but if the thermal cutout protection has been properly designed there's no reason why the electronics shouldn't last forever. What would be good to know is how long I can weld at 200A for before the thermal protection activates. If I can weld for 10 minutes and then have to let it cool for 30 minutes I can live with that. But 1 minute welding then 3 minutes cooling would probably drive me mad.
Which begs the question- how does the Tokentools welder achieve a much higher duty cycle at a lower price? It is 2kg heavier which would no doubt help, but how realistic are the duty cycle ratings on these cheaper Chinese welders?Chris
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29th Oct 2017, 07:10 PM #4Senior Member
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29th Oct 2017, 08:15 PM #5Most Valued Member
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When it comes to duty cycle claims, is there some standard? The reason I ask is because 50% duty cycle can mean 12 hours continual use followed by 12 hours of rest or it can mean 1 minute of use and 1 minute of rest. Theres a big difference between the two but they are both examples of 50% duty cycle.
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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29th Oct 2017, 08:43 PM #6Senior Member
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Duty Cycle are referenced to a 10 minutes time interval. 60% means 6 minutes welding followed by rest of 4 minutes. I suspect the values are derived.
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29th Oct 2017, 11:25 PM #7Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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Unfortunately that does not happen. Even if both machines are never run whereby their internals go above say 70ºC, a cap designed for 100ºC max operation won't on average last as long as one designed for 120ºC operation. Besides, caps age, unless properly protected fine metal dust gets into places it should not be, connections corrode or crack and then break. Cheaper ICs and IGBTs, C tracks form along undesirable pathways , insulation breaks down etc. Cheaper welders use cheaper components and don't take these longevity things into account as much to keep costs down and they just don't last as long. At our mens shed we have been given about a dozen cheap inverter that haven't been used for some time and they are a source of constant agro. After mucking about with these for some time finally they bought a couple of new machines. I don't reckon they spent enough but we'll see how we go.
Which begs the question- how does the Tokentools welder achieve a much higher duty cycle at a lower price?
The BOSS has AC as well which adds substantially to the cost of a welder
A closer comparison welder in terms of MMA and AC/DC TIG would be the Token Tools AC/DC 210A welder, but this costs $1500.
This one has 60% at 210A TIG but only 35% at 160A MMA.
It also weighs 25kg!
It is 2kg heavier which would no doubt help, but how realistic are the duty cycle ratings on these cheaper Chinese welders?
My BIL is an Al boat builder and every time he buys an new welder (he currently has 5 and buys and new one about once a year) one of the first things he does is checks the duty cycle.
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29th Oct 2017, 11:53 PM #8
My opinion is that Bossweld is one of the "also ran" and definitely a not top shelf machine.
If I want hardware I go to a hardware shop. If I want a welder I will go to a shop that sells welders as a primary product.
Reputation,reliability, good warranty and accessible after sales service is one of the points I look at when buying a welder.
If you search back through this forum about welders,Token Tools comes up with more positive comments than any other welder.Plenty of members here will step up and tell you about their positive experiences with Token Tools.
The difference,I believe is that that Bossweld is like other Chinese generic machines that have a number of Brand labels stuck on them.
Token tools welders are designed by an Aussie electrical engineer, using his own specs , top grade components and have a shop showroom and can boast a very successful history of nearly twenty years.
Grahame
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30th Oct 2017, 12:11 AM #9Senior Member
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Need to ask yourself what you are planning to do with it, pointless saving a couple hundred on the purchase if it's not going to meet your needs.
Are you able to get a foot pedal for it ?
Are you more likely to use it near the top end of it's capacity ? In steel I tend to go about 30a per mm of material thickness but also use a foot pedal so I can back off if needed
The Bossweld one comes with a WP-17 torch while others with a higher duty cycle will come with a WP-26, trade off's either way
Is mobility a big factor to you ? If so what are you like at stick welding because pointless having a 7kg machine if you still need to lug around a heavy gas bottle.
If the budget stretches I would be looking at putting in a bit more for a nicer machine. I know around the $1,500 mark you start to get into some much nicer built machines, all depends on your budget tho.
Personally I wouldn't go a DC only machine if you want versatility, the ability to flick a few switches, change electrodes and grab a different filler rod to do alloy is very useful.
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30th Oct 2017, 08:49 AM #10Most Valued Member
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Thanks for the replies. I'll try address some of your questions.
Do I want a pedal? I guess. I'm a complete noob, but I thought you needed a pedal for TIG. Can it be done without a pedal?
What am I going to use it for? Mostly hobby related stuff. Al, MS & SS up to 10mm thick. No heavy duty construction-related welding (e.g. RSJs). I have a semi-retirement plan to build a cafe racer which will require some welding on the frame as well as some Al and SS bling.
I'm unlikely to be lugging it around and I suspect stick will be the least used option. Which brings up another question- can you attach a MIG hand-piece to these welders and use them for MIG welding? MIG would be far more useful to me than stick.
Good to hear Token Tools has a good rep. It's a pity they don't have a showroom in Melbourne. It looks like I need to spend over $1500 to get a decent machine. The Aluplus 210 Bob mentioned looks very substantial. 25kg vs 9kg is a lot of extra machine for the extra $500. My god it has a lot of knobs on it though!
I'll peruse the Token Tools website and come back with some more dumb questions.Chris
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30th Oct 2017, 09:40 AM #11Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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Pedal is nice but not essential. I have one and have used it maybe 5 times in 3 years.
[QUOTE]What am I going to use it for? Mostly hobby related stuff. Al, MS & SS up to 10mm thick. No heavy duty construction-related welding (e.g. RSJs). I have a semi-retirement plan to build a cafe racer which will require some welding on the frame as well as some Al and SS bling.[QUOTE]
TIG sounds the go for this sort of thing.
I'm unlikely to be lugging it around and I suspect stick will be the least used option. Which brings up another question- can you attach a MIG hand-piece to these welders and use them for MIG welding? MIG would be far more useful to me than stick.
Good to hear Token Tools has a good rep. It's a pity they don't have a showroom in Melbourne. It looks like I need to spend over $1500 to get a decent machine. The Aluplus 210 Bob mentioned looks very substantial. 25kg vs 9kg is a lot of extra machine for the extra $500. My god it has a lot of knobs on it though!
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30th Oct 2017, 05:12 PM #12Most Valued Member
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I have 3 welders, a 40 year old AC welder, a 15 year old AC welder and a cheap crap mig welder. The cheap mig welder is a constant source of frustration to me and I can't wait for it to die (it just keeps going) but the other 2 AC welders have been very reliable even though they would not be worth more than $100 each if that.
Are equivalent DC welders so much more expensive for the same level of quality to an AC welder?
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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30th Oct 2017, 06:16 PM #13
Simonl,
For me the most noticeable difference between plain AC and non inverter DC is the soft arc.
AC transformer welders were relatively portable and the rectified (AC but but with a rectifier bridge added) were somewhat heavier.
DC is very suitable for for cast iron and stainless steel.The old AC and DC units could be relied to last a very long time.
There are no DC non inverter welding units in the DIY home /hobby class on the market AFAIK.Ones that exist were rectified AC to DC Home / hobby units created by enthusiasts attaching a rectifier and other components, so if you want one its going to be an AC oldie and DIY modification. - Usual disclaimer applies.
DC or AC/DC Inverter welders with high frequency and arc stabilisation are very different beasts, to use.
The downside is that sooner or later the electronics degrade and they don't deal with floods all that well.Some small cheap units are basically economic throw aways when they fail.
Grahame
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30th Oct 2017, 06:53 PM #14Most Valued Member
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Thanks Grahame.
WRT stainless steel welding, I do that on a regular basis with my AC transformer welder with reasonable results. Will I see an improved result or ease of operation with an inverter DC welder?
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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30th Oct 2017, 07:13 PM #15
If you are happy with what you are getting now, theres no reason to change.
Sheet thickness was an issue on one of my AC Trans units.At the initial arc strike it would blow a hole clean through the sheet and then weld normally. This was a 4 copper coil jobbie with a extra voltage connector.Even with the right tapping connected it would stick and blow a hole at the point of unsticking. I surmise that varying input voltage- 214 v - to 252V made the difference- Inverter s are difficult and handle that situation well.
In comparison the inverters have a really soft start. Wonderful for small tacking stainless or LCS sheet thicknesses.
Grahame
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