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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Forest Range, SA
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    22

    Default Satincraft vs weldskill vs Ferrocraft

    Its that time again to buy some more rods, and have over the years used Ferrocraft21, Satincraft13(currently), Austarc and various cheap Chinese(never again), the favourite being the Ferrocraft which I bought primarily for joining reo bars.

    My needs are very basic - join bits of metal, often scrap from back of the shed, for stuff around the property that will never need close inspection by anyone, so I'm wondering what the difference is at this low end between any of them. I should add this is just ordinary stick welding with a CIG arc welder.

    Looking at the CIG website it repeats the same old blurb for each saying it is a good general purpose rod, but if that's the case, why make different types? Must be a reason.
    Thanks
    John

    PS Anyone tried Lincoln Electric rods before? Adelaide Tools are selling Lincoln Electric 2.5mm Easyarc 6012 Electrodes 4.5kg Pack - for $29

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
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    71
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    5,942

    Default

    Of the ones you mentioned. they are much the same with a different name according to the manufacturer.
    If you see your local CIG shop you should be able to get a booklet on this, have one here somewhere, but not used it in 15 years, and most of it is forgotten now.
    It's the 4 digit number that denotes the construction of the electrode.
    Found this on our friend Google, some interesting reading and will give you an insight to what it all means;
    https://weldguru.com/welding-electrode/#classification
    Some of the information has been extracted below
    Classification
    The American Welding Society’s classification number series for welding electrodes has been adopted by the welding industry.
    The electrode identification system for steel arc welding is set up as follows:

    E indicates electrode for arc welding.
    The first two (or three) digits indicate tensile strength (the resistance of the material to forces trying to pull it apart)
    in thousands of pounds per square inch of the deposited metal.
    The third (or fourth) digit indicates the position of the weld.
    0 indicates the classification is not used;
    1 is for all positions;
    2 is for flat and horizontal positions only;
    3 is for flat position only.
    The fourth (or fifth) digit indicates the type of electrode coating and the type of power supply used; alternating or direct current, straight or reverse polarity. The types of coating, welding current, and polarity position designated by the fourth (or fifth) identifying digit of the electrode classification are as listed in table 5-4.
    6) The number E6010 indicates an arc welding electrode with a minimum stress relieved tensile strength of 60,000 psi; is used in all positions;
    and reverse polarity direct current is required.

    Coating, Current and Polarity Types Designated By the Fourth Digit in the Electrode Classification Number

    Digit Coating Weld Current
    0 * *
    1 Cellulose Potassium ac, dcrp, dcsp
    2 Titania sodium ac, dcsp
    3 Titania potassium ac, dcsp, dcrp
    4 Iron Powder Titania ac, dcsp, dcrp
    5 Low hydrogen sodium dcrp
    6 Low hydrogen potassium ac, dcrp
    7 Iron powder iron oxide ac, dcsp
    8 Iron powder low hydrogen ac, dcrp, dcsp

    Hope this helps to demystify the electrodes and their uses.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    near Warragul, Victoria
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    3,718

    Default rods

    At the TAFE where I did a welding course, they kept the welding rods in a little oven. Apparently the coating on the roads tends to absorb moisture from the air .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by morrisman View Post
    At the TAFE where I did a welding course, they kept the welding rods in a little oven. Apparently the coating on the roads tends to absorb moisture from the air .
    Hi Morrisman

    Usually the oven treatment is reserved for the Low Hydrogen electrodes.

    Unless the basic electrodes have been exposed to excess moisture (rode around in the back of the ute in an opened packet for six months ) they don't need the hotbox.

    I have Hyundai electrodes ( yes that Hyundai ) that are ten years old and have been in an PVC plumbing tube for the duration. They still run perfectly after all that time.. They are probably equivalent in running characteristics to the Austarcs

    I don't do a lot of welding anymore and what is done is just with 6012 and some stainless for shiny stuff.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    I quite like the behaviour and bead profile of Satincraft rods, but I think they make some on this forum angry. And they're expensive.

    If you can find them, Kobe RB26 rods run similar to Satincraft, but are considerably cheaper, but they are a pig to restart as a hard, glassy coating forms over the tip of the electrode - having a file on hand to scratch it off is the best option.

    I have quite a few Lincoln rods - they seem to be decent quality and very keenly priced.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Forest Range, SA
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    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I quite like the behaviour and bead profile of Satincraft rods, but I think they make some on this forum angry. And they're expensive.
    If you can find them, Kobe RB26 rods run similar to Satincraft, but are considerably cheaper, but they are a pig to restart as a hard, glassy coating forms over the tip of the electrode - having a file on hand to scratch it off is the best option.
    I have quite a few Lincoln rods - they seem to be decent quality and very keenly priced.
    Many thanks for all the advice! Kobe RB26 are available in QLD, but postage makes them very expensive in Adelaide, so looks like the Lincoln Electric 6012 EasyArc 4.5kg for $29 at AdelaideTools will do very nicely.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    Bear in mind that xx12 electrodes are designed for down hand whereas xx 13 will do all positions and make a more versatile purchase.

    A way of knowing if the electrode is up to industry standards is the Llyod 's Register of Shipping ,or ABS American Bureau of Shipping approvals will be found on the packaging.

    I am someone who rails against Satincraft a bit and that's because the arc length has to be kept short. Of all the LC electrode types they tend tend to slag hole the most if care is not taken. Having seen many students make these mistakes on an electrode that should have better arc length tolerances.'

    Yes! ,I do tend to bucket them.The user expectation is that the deposited bead will be fine rippled and visually attractive often ends in disappointment because of the slag holes. Given the price point of these electrodes I expect more from them.

    Grahame
    Last edited by Grahame Collins; 25th Oct 2017 at 01:06 PM. Reason: more info

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    near Warragul, Victoria
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    3,718

    Default rods

    I have to admit I'm a very ordinary welder ! The TAFE 3 phase welders made welding easier though.

    I have had these rods for over 20 years .The WIA Austarc were made in New Zealand . I also have some 3mm satincraft somewhere, purchased at a clearing sale

    I've met some brilliant welders that can do amazing stuff like weld a truck chassis together ( from two parts ) or weld army tank armour plating like 2 inches thick.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    nsw
    Posts
    256

    Default

    funny, i was curious about ferrocraft 21 and it took 3 websites to get the required info that it's a E7014 ( E4914) rod. 70000lbs tensile strength.

    why cigweld and the others wouldn't have this as an important piece of info on the product page is beyond me !

    the 7014 s i've used have been great to work with.

    the lincoln rods will be fine too.

    good luck

    meadow

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jabell View Post
    Many thanks for all the advice! Kobe RB26 are available in QLD, but postage makes them very expensive in Adelaide, so looks like the Lincoln Electric 6012 EasyArc 4.5kg for $29 at AdelaideTools will do very nicely.
    RB26 used to be available from Blackwoods at Regency Park. Also Southern Cross Industrial Supplies at Edwardstown.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    Default

    Blackwoods still carry them, and can order them in if not in store. They're about $40 for 5kg.

    That said, the Lincoln rods I've used have been fine - can't remember if they were 6012 or 6013 tho.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    Default

    Further to the comments made by myself in the past about Chinese electrodes and quality thereof.

    I thought I would do a bit of a look through google on Llyods register -of ship welding welding consumables and found this:

    https://www.cdlive.lr.org/informatio...bles/awcd1.pdf

    Ok ! there's not too many of you that builds ships in yer shed, but at least it gives an idea towards what brands Might be crap and what Brands Might not be crap. My thoughts being that if its in Llyods it can't be too bad! As you can imagine Lloyds Certs of aren't handed out to anyone - testing occurs, so theres a certainty of quality.

    Electrodes can be of reasonable cost and yet of good quality.

    Before the Buy Australian mob assembles with tar and feathers I will say not all of the Oz manufacturers , manufacture their electrodes here. Look at the coding on some of their electrodes its not metric sometimes, leading me to believe electrodes are Made OS, shipped in bulk , and boxed here so they can charge you near double what the other blokes want.

    Something for thought then

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Oz
    Age
    73
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    Default

    Keep an eye out for tool shop sales, Gasweld quite often have Lincolns on sale for $19 a pack. Lincolns are a dam good rod in my opinion. Whenever on sale I buy a pack or two. I do very little welding these days so my Electrode collection will probably outlast me, hard to pass up a bargain though!

    I also have some cheap Chinese rods but they are a pig to start and I seem to get a lot of inclusions for some reason.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Forest Range, SA
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sacc51 View Post
    Keep an eye out for tool shop sales, Gasweld quite often have Lincolns on sale for $19 a pack. Lincolns are a dam good rod in my opinion. Whenever on sale I buy a pack or two.
    Great tip - just signed up for the newsletter. Thanks!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Bunbury WA
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    98

    Default

    My go to rutile rod is CIG Weldcraft, when I did my apprenticeship over 50 years ago it was all that we used, The things built with it are virtually any industry you can think of. I am not overly fond of satincraft or GP6013. Unless you have a DC machine stay away from low hydrogen. BOC have a range of rods under the Smootharc name and I suspect they are made in China. I have used them on a building a while back and found them OK. From the smell I think they have a cellulose based flux which gives me hell as I have permanent lung damage from welding. I bought some Chinese general purpose off the internet and have used them in all
    positions. Being retired the price influenced me.

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