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24th Oct 2017, 04:00 PM #1Novice
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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- Forest Range, SA
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- 22
Satincraft vs weldskill vs Ferrocraft
Its that time again to buy some more rods, and have over the years used Ferrocraft21, Satincraft13(currently), Austarc and various cheap Chinese(never again), the favourite being the Ferrocraft which I bought primarily for joining reo bars.
My needs are very basic - join bits of metal, often scrap from back of the shed, for stuff around the property that will never need close inspection by anyone, so I'm wondering what the difference is at this low end between any of them. I should add this is just ordinary stick welding with a CIG arc welder.
Looking at the CIG website it repeats the same old blurb for each saying it is a good general purpose rod, but if that's the case, why make different types? Must be a reason.
Thanks
John
PS Anyone tried Lincoln Electric rods before? Adelaide Tools are selling Lincoln Electric 2.5mm Easyarc 6012 Electrodes 4.5kg Pack - for $29
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24th Oct 2017, 07:24 PM #2Most Valued Member
- Join Date
- May 2011
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- Murray Bridge S Aust.
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- 71
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- 5,959
Of the ones you mentioned. they are much the same with a different name according to the manufacturer.
If you see your local CIG shop you should be able to get a booklet on this, have one here somewhere, but not used it in 15 years, and most of it is forgotten now.
It's the 4 digit number that denotes the construction of the electrode.
Found this on our friend Google, some interesting reading and will give you an insight to what it all means;
https://weldguru.com/welding-electrode/#classification
Some of the information has been extracted below
Classification
The American Welding Society’s classification number series for welding electrodes has been adopted by the welding industry.
The electrode identification system for steel arc welding is set up as follows:
E indicates electrode for arc welding.
The first two (or three) digits indicate tensile strength (the resistance of the material to forces trying to pull it apart)
in thousands of pounds per square inch of the deposited metal.
The third (or fourth) digit indicates the position of the weld.
0 indicates the classification is not used;
1 is for all positions;
2 is for flat and horizontal positions only;
3 is for flat position only.
The fourth (or fifth) digit indicates the type of electrode coating and the type of power supply used; alternating or direct current, straight or reverse polarity. The types of coating, welding current, and polarity position designated by the fourth (or fifth) identifying digit of the electrode classification are as listed in table 5-4.
6) The number E6010 indicates an arc welding electrode with a minimum stress relieved tensile strength of 60,000 psi; is used in all positions;
and reverse polarity direct current is required.
Coating, Current and Polarity Types Designated By the Fourth Digit in the Electrode Classification Number
Digit Coating Weld Current 0 * * 1 Cellulose Potassium ac, dcrp, dcsp 2 Titania sodium ac, dcsp 3 Titania potassium ac, dcsp, dcrp 4 Iron Powder Titania ac, dcsp, dcrp 5 Low hydrogen sodium dcrp 6 Low hydrogen potassium ac, dcrp 7 Iron powder iron oxide ac, dcsp 8 Iron powder low hydrogen ac, dcrp, dcsp
Hope this helps to demystify the electrodes and their uses.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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24th Oct 2017, 07:43 PM #3
rods
At the TAFE where I did a welding course, they kept the welding rods in a little oven. Apparently the coating on the roads tends to absorb moisture from the air .
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24th Oct 2017, 08:14 PM #4
Hi Morrisman
Usually the oven treatment is reserved for the Low Hydrogen electrodes.
Unless the basic electrodes have been exposed to excess moisture (rode around in the back of the ute in an opened packet for six months ) they don't need the hotbox.
I have Hyundai electrodes ( yes that Hyundai ) that are ten years old and have been in an PVC plumbing tube for the duration. They still run perfectly after all that time.. They are probably equivalent in running characteristics to the Austarcs
I don't do a lot of welding anymore and what is done is just with 6012 and some stainless for shiny stuff.
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25th Oct 2017, 10:18 AM #5Diamond Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Canberra
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- 1,322
I quite like the behaviour and bead profile of Satincraft rods, but I think they make some on this forum angry. And they're expensive.
If you can find them, Kobe RB26 rods run similar to Satincraft, but are considerably cheaper, but they are a pig to restart as a hard, glassy coating forms over the tip of the electrode - having a file on hand to scratch it off is the best option.
I have quite a few Lincoln rods - they seem to be decent quality and very keenly priced.
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25th Oct 2017, 12:24 PM #6Novice
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- Feb 2009
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- Forest Range, SA
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- 22
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25th Oct 2017, 12:50 PM #7
Bear in mind that xx12 electrodes are designed for down hand whereas xx 13 will do all positions and make a more versatile purchase.
A way of knowing if the electrode is up to industry standards is the Llyod 's Register of Shipping ,or ABS American Bureau of Shipping approvals will be found on the packaging.
I am someone who rails against Satincraft a bit and that's because the arc length has to be kept short. Of all the LC electrode types they tend tend to slag hole the most if care is not taken. Having seen many students make these mistakes on an electrode that should have better arc length tolerances.'
Yes! ,I do tend to bucket them.The user expectation is that the deposited bead will be fine rippled and visually attractive often ends in disappointment because of the slag holes. Given the price point of these electrodes I expect more from them.
GrahameLast edited by Grahame Collins; 25th Oct 2017 at 01:06 PM. Reason: more info
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25th Oct 2017, 05:29 PM #8
rods
I have to admit I'm a very ordinary welder ! The TAFE 3 phase welders made welding easier though.
I have had these rods for over 20 years .The WIA Austarc were made in New Zealand . I also have some 3mm satincraft somewhere, purchased at a clearing sale
I've met some brilliant welders that can do amazing stuff like weld a truck chassis together ( from two parts ) or weld army tank armour plating like 2 inches thick.
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25th Oct 2017, 08:56 PM #9Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- nsw
- Posts
- 256
funny, i was curious about ferrocraft 21 and it took 3 websites to get the required info that it's a E7014 ( E4914) rod. 70000lbs tensile strength.
why cigweld and the others wouldn't have this as an important piece of info on the product page is beyond me !
the 7014 s i've used have been great to work with.
the lincoln rods will be fine too.
good luck
meadow
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25th Oct 2017, 09:17 PM #10
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26th Oct 2017, 10:26 AM #11Diamond Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Canberra
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- 1,322
Blackwoods still carry them, and can order them in if not in store. They're about $40 for 5kg.
That said, the Lincoln rods I've used have been fine - can't remember if they were 6012 or 6013 tho.
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26th Oct 2017, 01:13 PM #12
Further to the comments made by myself in the past about Chinese electrodes and quality thereof.
I thought I would do a bit of a look through google on Llyods register -of ship welding welding consumables and found this:
https://www.cdlive.lr.org/informatio...bles/awcd1.pdf
Ok ! there's not too many of you that builds ships in yer shed, but at least it gives an idea towards what brands Might be crap and what Brands Might not be crap. My thoughts being that if its in Llyods it can't be too bad! As you can imagine Lloyds Certs of aren't handed out to anyone - testing occurs, so theres a certainty of quality.
Electrodes can be of reasonable cost and yet of good quality.
Before the Buy Australian mob assembles with tar and feathers I will say not all of the Oz manufacturers , manufacture their electrodes here. Look at the coding on some of their electrodes its not metric sometimes, leading me to believe electrodes are Made OS, shipped in bulk , and boxed here so they can charge you near double what the other blokes want.
Something for thought then
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28th Oct 2017, 11:00 AM #13Banned
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
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- Oz
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- 73
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- 459
Keep an eye out for tool shop sales, Gasweld quite often have Lincolns on sale for $19 a pack. Lincolns are a dam good rod in my opinion. Whenever on sale I buy a pack or two. I do very little welding these days so my Electrode collection will probably outlast me, hard to pass up a bargain though!
I also have some cheap Chinese rods but they are a pig to start and I seem to get a lot of inclusions for some reason.
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1st Nov 2017, 11:18 PM #14Novice
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- Feb 2009
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- Forest Range, SA
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- 22
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15th Nov 2017, 08:15 PM #15Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Location
- Bunbury WA
- Posts
- 98
My go to rutile rod is CIG Weldcraft, when I did my apprenticeship over 50 years ago it was all that we used, The things built with it are virtually any industry you can think of. I am not overly fond of satincraft or GP6013. Unless you have a DC machine stay away from low hydrogen. BOC have a range of rods under the Smootharc name and I suspect they are made in China. I have used them on a building a while back and found them OK. From the smell I think they have a cellulose based flux which gives me hell as I have permanent lung damage from welding. I bought some Chinese general purpose off the internet and have used them in all
positions. Being retired the price influenced me.
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