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Thread: stick vs mig
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13th Aug 2017, 08:31 PM #1Novice
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stick vs mig
I'm guessing this topic might have been done if so send me the link.
but I was always wondering why a lot of retired boillies just own stick welders (well my dads mates and couple of mine)
I know 2 guys that own trailer business and they both only own stick.
I'm doing welding tafe coarse at moment, and mig is so fast and I have found easier to get a neat and strong weld.
but a lot more is needed eg. mig you need gas, wire, wire speed and adjustments 2 nozzles to keep clean, gas can run out wire run out, but with a stick you just need sticks.
my questions are
1. when it comes to strength neatness are they the same?
2. if not whats the advantages of the better one?
cheers
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13th Aug 2017, 08:47 PM #2Philomath in training
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I always get a little nervous being the first in on these as I'm not a welder, but...
A weld of the same size should be of the same strength (assuming the weld metal is the same)
Stick is a little more flexible though as there is a wider variety of rods than there are wires. Sometimes the base metallurgy of the weld is manipulated by stick coatings to do some interesting things. As you note, stick does not need as much gear and so is cheaper, but the downside is that it is slower. MIG is perhaps a little more forgiving as there is no flux to include in the weld, but at the same time someone with a MIG can produce a bad weld that superficially looks good with remarkable ease.
Michael
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13th Aug 2017, 10:19 PM #3Banned
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I think you'll find most people will prefer what they originally learned on or started with and are therefore more comfortable with. Certainly in my case at least, i have both but the mig mostly sits under its cover and rarely gets used.
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13th Aug 2017, 11:30 PM #4Senior Member
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I would rather stick then mig.
Ive found too with stick you will use less amps. My 180amp mig i was using flat out all the time and would always trip the duty cycle.
I may be wrong here but just from my experience you will use less amps with stick then a mig.
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13th Aug 2017, 11:36 PM #5
I was a boilermaker.
I favour stick over mig.
Cost per weld, no gas costs, per unit cost wire is dearer than stick
Strength is relative to the parent metal - the filler(wire or stick ) merely matches the parent metal
Versatility - Stick will do more than mig with little fuss-welds in the wind
Reliability - Almost no moving parts to fail
Maintenance - No contact tip,shroud or liners to clean and/or replace -no inventory of spares to keep.
Grahame
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13th Aug 2017, 11:39 PM #6Most Valued Member
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I learnt on arc and have both Arc and MIG. I've found that with arc, it requires different rods for different applications. I can't remember the code numbers for the rods without finding the book with details, but there are rods that are better for vertical up, over head welding, another better for vertical down, you'd need another type of rod for hi tensile. Depending on the work, full iron powder rods for a higher deposition rate. Then there are the different gauges for different amps. etc etc. etc. you could end up with 50 different packets of rods. Then there's the rod stubs, the slag on the floor getting broken up to dust to clean.
Don't get me wrong, arc has a place, usually for welding outside/site work, where it's too windy blowing the MIG gas away causing porous welds.
With MIG I can weld from car body thickness up to 10 mm + with different settings, mild steel and hi tensile, all with the one wire.
After 50 + years, for me the MIG beats arc hands down. Learnt to weld when I was 12.
I use my 150 amp arc for on site work, maybe once or twice a year, where I can't get my 250 amp MIG in the boot.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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14th Aug 2017, 12:01 AM #7Most Valued Member
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As most here would know, I too am a boily. I love the stick process and generally recommend it to the one welder man, however it is a fact that the MIG process accounts for roughly 80% of industrial welding with the remaining 20% covered by TIG, stick, Sub Arc, oxy and resistance welding. From that we can deduce that MIG is here to stay.
The best way I can put it is that stick requires more skill to use, while MIG requires more knowledge and skill to set up correctly. Trust me, a mig can do a weld that looks pure heaven, but holds nothing, while a stick weld that looks reasonable will hold all you could want and then some.
I would query the cost advantage for stick welding as mentioned by Grahame as I pay roughly $35 per 15KG roll of .9 wire and around $65 per 10.3m3 cylinder of gas compared to $60ish for 5Kg of 16TC's.
When the chips are down, I reach for stick as for a given weld it is tougher (talking low hydrogen sticks here) and will handle contamination better than MIG. Gas shielded flux core will outperform stick of course,but requires an industrial 3 phase MIG to reach its potential.
I would venture that anyone owning a trailer business and choosing stick over MIG is handicapping themselves, but the same could be said for somebody trying to perform onsite maintenance with a MIG. Horses for courses.
In a nutshell. Mig for clean work in a workshop, stick for anything you throw at it, provided you choose the correct stick and can run the process efficiently.
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14th Aug 2017, 12:47 AM #8I pay roughly $35 per 15KG roll of .9 wire and around $65 per 10.3m3 cylinder of gas
Mig is so quick and easy for those little jobs.
Dean
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14th Aug 2017, 08:40 AM #9
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14th Aug 2017, 12:22 PM #10Banned
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Mig is the reason I quit welding for a living. I was in about my sixth or seventh year welding for a crust and my then boss bought a new fangled welder called a CO2. They'd been around for a while but being a small factory the boss was happy to continue with stick and oxy, I'd learned about them in class bat that was all One of the labourers working at the factory was shown how to use the thing and after about half a dozen welds was laying almost perfect beads. I then began seriously looking for work outside of welding, aside from a short stint a couple of years later I never worked as a welder again. To say I was disgusted is under stating it, I'd spent around seven years learning all the ins and outs,, bla, bla, bla, and then a labourer comes in and starts laying near perfect beads. Funny thing, I have a mig now but can't weld anywhere near as good with it as I can with stick, I should sell the POS, but it looks nice.
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15th Aug 2017, 08:27 AM #11Novice
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so for hobby use and bit of cash on the side, doing trailers and frames for steel flat bed trays for Utes, stick might be the go, cheaper to run.
whats the best way to learn about what sticks to buy and work with? what stick to use for say 3mm 4mm box mild steel?
thanks for all the reply's
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15th Aug 2017, 08:45 AM #12Philomath in training
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It's probably a matter of trying a few and getting one that you are comfortable with. I was put onto WIA 12P electrodes by a mate and I find them good. I think some here use Gemini brand rods and while sometimes scorned and not as versatile, the CIG satincraft rods are commonly available in most hardware shops and do produce a nice looking weld.
Get a big old bit of plate and run some beads...
Michael
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15th Aug 2017, 10:32 AM #13Senior Member
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2.5mm rods will do you right up to about 4 maybe 5mm. 3.2mm rod for the rest.
2.5 general purpose rods they say 90amps max. Ive been known to push 100.
There are so many rods but dont worrie too much about them. Start of with 6013 or 6012 these are general purpose rods and are cheap to learn on and will cover most things.
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15th Aug 2017, 09:43 PM #14Most Valued Member
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I would say definitely not. Mig would be the best choice by far if you intend building a few trailers (good luck making money building box trailers) or ute trays. Very little of what you will be working with will be 3mm and most will be under that. Stick will produce greater distortion when welding in floors and sides. Yes stick could do the job, but you will be handicapping yourself by going this route.
For what you describe, I would select a 180 to 200A Mig that takes 15kg spools and would run CO2 gas, possibly from a cylinder that you purchase and get refilled. Gas cylinder rental can get expensive if your welder sits more than it is used.
There are reasons why MIG is utilised for around 80% of industrial work.
I would suggest that you need to honestly assess how much backyard work you will take on and factor this into your decision making. Building trailers is a very expensive process if you do not have the ability to purchase components at seriously discounted prices.
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16th Aug 2017, 10:36 AM #15
Couldn't agree more with Karl's sentiments (for Metal Burn's situation). I own a few welders (stick, tig and mig) and mig is my go-to welder for the vast majority of the workshop based work I do. It has handled everything from auto body work to 25mm plate.
I run CO2 from a purchased beer gas cylinder (that I bought about 6 or 7 years ago) and get it refilled by the local fire extinguisher place. If I was starting out now I would probably go for one of the cylinder "buy and swap" schemes that are out there now, like I have with my tig argon cylinder.Cheers.
Vernon.
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