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30th Jul 2017, 06:35 PM #1Novice
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- Jul 2017
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- pottsville nsw
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- 15
thoughts on this package & brand?
https://www.ewelders.com.au/w.html
anyone have or use this brand?
I don't know a lot about duty, but the package looks good but duty I think is low?
cheers
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30th Jul 2017, 09:42 PM #2
The duty cycle refers to the time a machine actually welds in comparison to the cooling down time.
Certainly it can be exceeded but at the risk of overheating and damaging the transformer windings and other components that will let the blue smoke out.
Sorry to keep knocking your selections but
The specs say its a 10% duty cycle.
Too many dollars ( or roubles in Qld.) for such a low duty cycle. Its just barely adequate.
Maybe someone here has one and can say some nice things about the machine but the numbers don't stack up.
Its a 240 volt 10 amp plug supply but claims 180 amps max output. Perhaps that explains the dismal duty cycle. On full power you weld for a minute and let it cool down for 9 minutes. I would not like it.
What do the rest of the guys think?
Grahame
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30th Jul 2017, 09:59 PM #3Novice
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- Jul 2017
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- pottsville nsw
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cheers for feedback
I asked my tafe teacher same question and he reckons, that duty time is based on those stats flatout, which with that welder would be 10mm plus steel, I will be working on trailers so 3mm -5mm so that would extend my duty time, does that sound right to you? just need 2nd opinion.
also what do you claim to be good brands if I look 2nd hand?
can someone explain duty time to me? what duty should I look for?
sorry for the post's
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30th Jul 2017, 10:10 PM #4Philomath in training
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- Oct 2011
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- Norwood-ish, Adelaide
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- 59
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I'd agree with that duty cycle assessment Grahame.
Stick is not the fastest welding method in the world so there will be cooling time while changing electrodes - 100% duty cycle is not necessary. I recently bought a Cigweld Weldskill unit (the 130 unit - can run from a 10A supply). The 2.5mm rods I usually run have a typical current range of 60 to 85A, and the power supply claims a duty cycle at 75A of 60%. I think that is a reasonable sort of duty cycle and one I'm prepared to work with. 10%? "Tell them the're dreamin'".
Duty cycle - a percentage of (usually) 10 minutes which the unit can be used without overheating, so a 60% duty cycle is 6 minutes of welding time and 4 minutes of resting. It's an average sort of thing so you don't have to strictly stop welding after 6 minutes or if you weld for 3 and then rest for 2 it equates to the same thing. It is most useful as a measure of how much capacity a unit has to do the job. Obviously the more temperature tolerant the components and the greater the safety margins designed into the welder the better the duty cycle. Conversely with a 'cheap as' welder, the duty cycle will be lower as the more expensive components are not used and margins are trimmed...
The duty cycle will vary depending on current draw. The Weldskill unit I refer to above quotes 58A @100%, 75A @ 60% and 130A @20%, so any current below 58A I can use the unit continuously, at 75A I can use it 60% of the time and at 130A (probably 3.2mm electrodes) I can only weld for 20% of the time before having to rest the welder. Most of the newer inverter type welders will have a thermal cut out so that if they get too hot they just stop. Better to manage your welding so you don't have things cut out in the middle of a run.
For welding 3 to 5mm steel, you would probably use 2.5mm electrodes although you could possibly use 3.2mm electrodes. If using the WIA 12P electrodes (6013 type) I referenced above you will need 60 to 85A and 90 to 130A respectively, so you would want a duty cycle that around those numbers gives a reasonable time, hence saying that my 60% is reasonable. I would rarely use 3.2mm electrodes on that power supply as I would be down to 20% duty cycle. I may use them on my 'big' welder as the duty cycle is better (60% @130A)
The name brands include Fronius, Miller, Lincoln, Hobart. There are others like CIGweld, BOC and WIA which may or may not be good, depending on when and/ or where they were made (some models are made in certain places and don't have a good reputation. Earlier models may be much better regarded). The Token Tools range has a good reputation here and the owner even shows up occasionally. I am not a trained welder but the Weldskill unit has impressed me, and I think as a unit to learn on it would be reasonable (see //metalworkforums.com/f160/t200...orld-surprises) Grahame said they were used in schools without disastrous consequences so able to take some abuse. It came from a pawnshop, so that may be another source for a secondhand welder to consider.
MichaelLast edited by Michael G; 30th Jul 2017 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Added more
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30th Jul 2017, 10:55 PM #5
The Weldskill was "toughness tested" by a mob of year 11 and 12 Engineering students over 2 years and they did not fry it so that says something about it.
If one does let the blue smoke out they are usually not economically repairable.
Grahame
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1st Aug 2017, 11:43 PM #6Novice
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Aus
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- 24
Those machines are a reasonable jasic manufactured hobby unit. Lightweight inverter, etc. I have a unimig/jasic ac tig that's ancient but throws a nice arc.
Michael G is correct about what a duty cycle is. For trailers I'd still use 3.2mm rods as they are heaps cheaper - but I hate gp's. Look at 7016's (or 18's for fast fill.)
TBH not sure why we're talking stick though - the machine is a mig first. If you want to burn rods save money and get a stick welder. It'll be a much better tool for learning. Many of our critical welds are stick or tig root, mig fill & cap.
If you're serious about mig and not moving it all the time find a second hand transformer machine that'll hold a full 15kg spool. Will eat something like this for breakfast.
I would not buy a new weldskill or wia, they've gone downhill.
Brands aren't as important any more. I have cig, thermal arc, weldsmart, Kemppi and unimig - all will stick metal together fine when you know how to use them.
I'd check out jodi's videos (weldingtipsandtricks) and even chucky2009(?) and they'll give you more info.
If you are in Perth I can prob help you out with a cheaper stick machine. Otherwise Evan at Hampdon does the new gear at good prices, and is a top bloke.
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2nd Aug 2017, 10:31 PM #7New Member
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- Sep 2011
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- mundubbera
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- 75
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- 8
To me duty cycle is pretty much everything,why buy anything that is really only half a welder compared to something that has at least something around about the 60% duty.I have had the misfortune to own a small lookalike CIG welder many years ago just an a/c stick welder but it was just a pain.Invariably it would shut itself off when you had about 2 welds left to finish the job and when it shut down took ages to start up again.
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3rd Aug 2017, 10:11 AM #8
I believe there has been an ongoing degradation of once known good quality electronic welding machines and it is just a fact we will have to live with.
I suspect that some of the well known brands, but still lower end hobby machines are currently manufactured by batch contracts determined on price.
One of the critical components are the inverter are the chips which can be either Mofset or IGBT inverter chips. The chips can vary in quality and price and it would not surprise me that less than top quality Mosfets or IGBTs are utilised to save money.
Yes the components are good enough to get past the warranty period, but the cheaper machines dont run as well as they could.
It is known that the $300 and $400 welder units are bin jobs when they do fail because the labour and or repair parts exceed will mostly exceed half the new cost of a unit.
Grahame
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5th Aug 2017, 01:25 PM #9Most Valued Member
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- Sep 2010
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- Lebrina
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- 1,910
I reckon you have a point regarding the quality degradation of well known brands. Lincoln run two product lines, the cheaper Powercraft line is aimed at the serious handyman, mechanic or farmer, while the Invertec range is aimed at the professional and priced accordingly. Earlier Powercraft stick inverters would happily run off a genset of adequate size, but the newer units, (say 3yrs and younger) often experience issues when powered by a generator. The official Lincoln response was that the gensets were too small or did not produce stable current. My local Lincoln dealer then walked the rep out to an industrial 20kVa diesel genset, powered it up and the welder experienced the same issues as on the smaller domestic genset. This has occurred with multiple units and that particular Lincoln retailer no longer sells the Powercraft stick inverters for that reason and instead sells the Jasic machine into that market. The Invertec machines are still as good as ever. Obviously there has been a change internally, one not for the better.
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