Thread: What's the go with Synergic MIG

Tax time coming up and thought I might get a more modern MIG inverter style to replace the old transformer one.

Only need around 180/200 amps or so. Single phase.

Token Tools only have Synergic models. Multi purpose.

Already have a decent AC/DC TIG and a small potable DC stick welder. Kinda like single purpose machines but it is not a deal breaker.

What's the go with Synergic MIG? Is it just a gimick?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Should have said that I don't need an industrial strength duty cycle. Jobs tend to be small most of the time.

First up, we need to make a distinction between synergic mig and synergic pulse mig. A synergic mig simply adjusts both voltage and wire feed in balance with the one dial rather than the operator adjusting them individually by separate controls. Synergic Pulse uses a microprocessor to control several weld parameters in order too produce a welding current comprised of both a background level and higher pulses of current in order to control the mig process and extract the highest level of performance.
Nothing is perfect however and there will be provided the ability to fine tune both processes to suit the operators requirements. In a nutshell, I don't get excited by straight synergic machines due to the fact that it is not too hard to set a normal mig anyway and you need to fine tune the synergic machines in most cases anyway. We have a Kemppi mig at work that has a synergic mode, but always stays in manual mode. Synergic pulse is another beast entirely and I do see merit in them, but not for the home user.
I would never pay the extra for a synergic machine over a full manual setup, but I wouldn't reject one either if the price was right as they normally have a full manual mode anyway.

Thanks for that Karl

The following is from Token Tools write up on the "Synergic 210S" As opposed to the bigger, more expensive, 250P which is described as a Pulse Mig Welder

So what is a Synergic Mig welder and how can you benefit?
Synergic Mig welding machines provide incremental current pulses which form
small droplets of similar sized molten material on the tip of the Welding wire
combined with the other specific relationships necessary for stable wire burn off.

Now I am a little unsure. Need to do some more research.

Originally Posted by Greolt

Thanks for that Karl

The following is from Token Tools write up on the "Synergic 210S" As opposed to the bigger, more expensive, 250P which is described as a Pulse Mig Welder

So what is a Synergic Mig welder and how can you benefit?
Synergic Mig welding machines provide incremental current pulses which form
small droplets of similar sized molten material on the tip of the Welding wire
combined with the other specific relationships necessary for stable wire burn off.

Now I am a little unsure. Need to do some more research.

Not sure I agree with their description of "incremental current pulses". Unless the machine is a pulse mig, there are no current pulses as such in the MIG process other than those naturally occurring as a result of short circuiting during short arc transfer. The 210S is not listed in the pulse mig category on their web page, so all I can assume is that Token Tools have resorted to sales waffle in that blurb.
Frankly, that machine doesn't overly impress me. For $1250 (alegedly $1750 at full price - seriously????), I think you could do a lot better. It turns me right off when companies write wordy waffle to entrap the unwary.
On the plus side, the duty cycle isn't bad at all, although the mig gun is undersized in my opinion and at 3M you will probably curse it. A 4m lead length would be better suited.
Given that you don't need the tig or stick functions, other straight mig machines may be a better fit for your needs. There are substantially more straight migs in industry than synergic machines, so that should provide a bit of a clue as to how much of an advantage it really is.

Sent an email to Token Tools. Maybe I expect too much but was a little disappointed in the response.

The synergic machine offers welding control by setting up amps required, select wire type then wire thickness then amps required, the machine does the rest.
The pulse machine offers alternating cycles of higher or lower voltage which aids in minimising the heat input to the welded material whilst allowing excellent penetration.

Still a bit vague concerning what the extent of the Synergic system on this particular welder. It sounds like your description was correct.

I was attracted by their reputation on the forum as well as the five year warranty.

However I think I will leave it for now.

Before I scored a WIA at an auction, I was looking pretty closely at the BOC smootharc MIG; https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/bo...dvanceii250c-p
Only annoyance is the 32amp powerpoint requirement.

I too was disappointed by Token tools and their representation of this machine. I rated them substantially higher than that.
All synergic machines require the same basic information for them to be able to select appropriate parameters. This information will always include wire type and diameter as well as shielding gas type. Depending on the complexity of the machine, you then set either amperage required, or thickness to be welded. In the case of the Token tools machine you were looking at let's say you are welding steel and you have a roll of .9mm wire and a cylinder of argon/carbon dioxide mix. You would input that information into the machine and then, based on your experience, you would set an amperage level that you felt appropriate for your material thickness. The little hamster inside the machine would then set the voltage and wire feed speed calculated by the designer to give approximately that amperage (remember all migs are constant voltage, but variable amperage). I have yet to see a 100% perfect setup from any synergic machine and don't ever expect to given that every operator has their own style and preference. Typically there will be within the machines menu the ability to fine tune either wire speed or voltage to fine tune the parameters. More advanced machines do away with the amperage setting, replacing it with a material thickness selection. Other than that they are the same. Compare this with a standard mig. You simply set voltage and then adjust wire speed to give the desired characteristics. Given that you will need to fine tune a synergic machine in most circumstances, there is effectively no difference in favour of the synergic machine. Remember, we are not talking about pulse capable machines here, they are a whole new subject, which I can explain further if you should desire.
I hate BOC Smootharc machines with a passion and believe them to be cheaply built from poor materials. We have two at work and I hate them both passionately. Lots of plastic where there should be steel or brass.
Having said that, the machine that Legion linked to has a couple of advantages over the Token Tools offering. The BOC comes with a Binzel MB36 mig gun, which is capable of 350-400A usage (this comes at the expense of performance on thinner material in short arc mode, but this can be worked around easily), however it is still listed at only 3M long. Secondly, the BOC is on wheels and gives you somewhere to securely mount your cylinder. They will run off a 10A or 15A supply at reduced capacity (they come with a 15A plug fitted). To be honest, most will never have too much of an issue with tripping standard circuit breakers.
If it were me, I would prefer to buy a second hand transformer machine of reputable heritage as they still run as well as the day they were made and are very repairable if need be. I am not too fussed by synergic capability as I generally prefer to set my machine myself anyway and you can get a couple of good apps from either Lincoln or Miller that give good starting points for voltage and wire feed until you gain the confidence to set things yourself. The Lincoln app is my preference by far, but the Miller app is also quite usable.

I have the tokentools synergic mig, I think it's the 210S, can't remember, I bought it a number of years ago.
I couldn't fault the welder - but I don't really use the synergic or memory functions except maybe the first week I had the machine. I just have some go to setting programmed in my head and modify from there based on what I observe with the weld. So I wouldn't really bother with the synergic bit, but it's pretty much standard now anyway I think?
I've run 30 or 40kg of steel wire through the welder so far, as well as a couple of rolls of aluminium and it hasn't missed a beat. I also bought their cheap spool gun and have run a few little spools of aluminium through that as well.
If I had my time again, I'd probably get a pulse mig for the aluminium - for the thin stuff.
As far as after sales tech support I can't fault TT. I've got an older TT TIG machine as well.
I've never had either machine cut out on duty cycle and I often run in the top quarter of the amps range. So I'd be pretty confident on that front.
Cheers
- Mick

Thanks to those who have responded. I appreciate it.