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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
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    15

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    Interesting articles Michael, very helpful if I ever get this thing going.

    No joy with the sparky today, he needs a wiring diagram. We did establish that there is a closed circuit between the wires marked E Stop & that the foot pedal is also closed when operated. He thinks the E stop may be an overheating failsafe for the transformer.

    When the power is on, the weld/ no weld toggle set to weld, & you press the pedal, nothing happens. There is a manual push button on the side of the pneumatic solenoid valve & when pressed the top electrode comes down & clamps as it should.

    I have checked everywhere for cut wires & interlocks, & have only found the one interlock on the main door to the control box...it is working as it should.

    Hopefully the techs from Inductotherm will come through with something on Monday.

    Time to spend some 'family time' & forget about it for a while...but I hate having machines that don't work.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
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    15

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    I thought I had updated this post...must not have hit submit. Anyhow, the following is part of a the reply that I received from Inductotherm last week:

    I am sorry to say, but I am not sure we can help you much.

    Based on the serial number, this unit was probably built back inthe late 1960’s or early 70’s (although appears to be extremely good conditionfor it’s age !)

    We no longer have any service technicians who have worked on theold igntron units & that version weld controller. The last controllerof that type we saw go through our workshop would have been in the order of 15years ago.

    The experience & test-rigs to support such units was lost along time ago.

    In fact the only guy we had who knew anything about them passedaway 8 years ago.

    The only way we could help you, is for the welder to be returned tous where we would have to replace the ignitrons with an SCR type firing systemand an updated Miyachi weld controller.

    * However, the cost would be extremely high. I would guess in the order of$20k to $25K.

    I assume that you do not want to spend that sort of money on it.


    So I think I will take the seller up on his offer of 'money back if she don't work' as I don't have the time to spend digging any deeper.

    Thanks a gain for everyone's suggestions & help, if nothing else I learned a bit about spot welder settings etc. Regards Bruce

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

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    Pity

    If you're not going to be doing production welding it maybe cheap enough to get it operating.
    You really only need one timer and a two stage pedal.(in fact you could do it without the timer but it would be fiddly).(I assume your sparkie checked the pedal at the terminal block in the machine, not at the pedal itself?)
    Set the first stage of the pedal to close the air solenoid(so you control the squeeze time), the second stage triggers the weld timer(then you control the hold time before releasing the pedal). Job done, slower if you have a lot of "easy" welders to do. Could well be faster if you have a few "tricky" welds to do. With tricky welds what we had to do was max out the squeeze time with "no weld" on, line everything up hit the pedal, if everything was still lined up then flick the switch to "weld" before the squeeze time ran out, so that's tricky in its self.

    But this assumes the the tranny is working correctly which is still really unknown. Also the newer welders/controllers can do a few more tricks it seems, especially for welding zinc and gal.

    Better luck next time maybe?

    Stuart

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    15

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    This welder is fitted with the Ignitron tubes that are mentioned in the article on heat control which Michael G attached in an earlier response.

    When the power is turned on, apart from a small light coming on there is nothing...not even a hum from the transformer. I am wondering if failed ignitron tubed could be the cause? I don't think any current sparkies would know anything about them??

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

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    Quote Originally Posted by WC57 View Post
    ..not even a hum from the transformer.
    You're talking about the welding transformer?
    It wont hum as there is no power to it until its "welding", All the controls are on the primary side

    Quote Originally Posted by WC57 View Post
    I am wondering if failed ignitron tubed could be the cause?
    I would "assume" its nothing to do with ignitron tubes.
    As I "assume" the squeeze time, weld time and hold time have nothing to do with the ignitron tubes(other that when "weld" is on there is a signal set to the heat control which then controls the tubes)
    I would "assume" the welder should cycle just fine if the tubes aren't working(though there will of course be no weld current)

    But we know where assuming gets us

    Did the sparkie take the back/front off the controller? Maybe they were nice enough to put a circuit diagram on the inside?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    15

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    That's something else I was wondering...should the pneumatic side of it work even if the ignitron tubes are faulty. No electrical diagrams are in the machine, Inductotherm are checking to see if they have any.

    The seller suggested that I get a price on scrap value & he will reimburse the difference. Local yard offered a crazy 20cents per kilo for whole machine & up to between $1 to $3.20 for the clean brass, copper etc

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

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    Now that would be a pity. If you were closer I'd take it off your hands at that price lol

    I assume your sparkie checked the pedal at the terminal block in the machine, not at the pedal itself???





  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

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    I'd take the seller up on his offer, it would then give some money to play with on getting it going. Some would consider it dishonest, but as it is, he'd be the dishonest one for selling a "working" unit which it isn't.
    If you have a friend who's good with electrics, you could get him to look to see what's wrong with it, with out it costing you $100 + per hour. Payment could be in liquid currency!!!

    This could be a long shot, but try to get hold of the Precinct Hotel Richmond to find out when the DOF (Dorman Old Farts) have their next luncheon.
    Every so often, generally in the first quarter of the calendar year, a group of former employees of R.V. DORMAN & Co.Pty.Ltd. are invited to a get-together-luncheon known as the DOF Luncheon.
    This has been an informal fixture since 2006 and all have been convened by Fred Barker.
    Someone there may know or have knowledge of a wiring diagram for you.
    R.V. DORMAN & Co. Pty. Ltd. - Sites - Google

    https://sites.google.com/site/rvdormancoptyltd/


    Kryn
    Last edited by KBs PensNmore; 9th Sep 2016 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Details for possible contact
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    15

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    Very interesting, thanks Kryn. I will see how I go getting hold of them...not giving up just yet.

    Out of curiosity, what amps to you think this thing would draw? It came fitted with a 32amp 3 phase plug, which is what I am using & it has not tripped any circuit breakers...but then it hasn't ran??

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    15

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    Well...I returned the machine to the seller for a refund today & would like to thank everyone who offered help via this forum. Unfortunately I didn't have time to follow up on every lead as time was getting away & I thought I better get the $$ back while the offer was still good.

    The good news is the seller has changed career direction & is keen to save the old girl & get it going, so it wont go to scrap just yet.

    Thank again. Regards Bruce

    P.S. I just bought a 30 KVA CIG welder. Looks very much like a rebranded Aston?

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