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Thread: Welding set up

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacc51 View Post
    When I started in the trade around 50 years ago there was no such thing as OH&S. Everyone wore T shirts, shorts and boots, the boss didn't supply safety glasses, gloves or anything else. Most bought their own leather aprons to spare their T shirts and shorts. Welders, like myself, were easy to spot by their two tone tans: red on the exposed bits and the lilly white beyond, boots were great for catching red hot slag. The foreman always scoffed at those wearing aprons, said his wife wore an apron and so refused to wear one himself, at least until the day he was cutting a slot in a large pipe with his body pressed up against the end, boy could he scream loud, he wasn't shy about shedding his shirt either- very quickly.... After that incident he relented and bought an apron but would only used it when welding, of course after that whenever donning it we all called him 'Mrs Joseph', think they call that 'live by the sword'!. The problem with working in environments like that is PPE is a difficult thing to remember later on.
    It’s amazing that we all survived to live as long as we did without O.H & S. As my dad used to say, “I wish I was the one who invented safety, I’d be a rich man now.” When I look back at the ‘unsafe’ things I did when I was an apprentice, I’m amazed I survived sometimes .

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Newman View Post
    A couple more points:

    Before you start welding make sure that bystanders are warned not to look at the arc.

    After you finish welding don't leave the area unmanned until you are 100% sure nothing is smoking or on fire. You'd be surprised how far welding and grinding sparks can travel!
    Thanks Gavin, I think I’d better invest in some curtains and another helmet for the kids, as they’ll no doubt want to see what dads doing in the shed with that bright light.

    Quote Originally Posted by clive hugh View Post
    I would suggest you sign up for a welding course at TAFE, save yourself a lot of time.
    Thanks Clive, I did investigate a TAFE course, but the closest TAFE that offers welding is close to 2 hours drive. I’ll keeping looking into some short courses though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    +1 for the TAFE course. A lot of information can be imparted in a relatively short period.
    If you don't already have an angle grinder, I suggest giving consideration to a 5" over a 4" model. A 5" grinder is much more versatile in my opinion and is fairly much the industry standard for a boilys small grinder, with either 7 or 9" as your big grinder (depending on site rules etc)
    I’ve got an angle grinder, I’m not sure what size though, it’s been that long since I used it. It’s a GMC (that shows how old it is )

    Don't be afraid to experiment with different techniques and find what works for you.
    One essential item for any area where hot work is performed is a Dry Chemical fire extinguisher or better still 2 of them. Read the instructions before you need to use them as well.
    The actual welding side of things is actually fairly simple, or at least can be, but the fabrication and fit up side is where good tools really come into their own. You will probably want a decent chipping hammer if stick wlding as the ones that come with welders are invariably rubbish.
    I’ll buy a few boxes of rods and try to re-learn my arc skills, hopefully with some help and critiquing from you guys. I’ve got a few dry chem extinguishers which I’ll locate to the shed.
    Thanks again all,
    Steve.

  2. #17
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    I agree with what the others have suggested, I found that the chipping hammers with the spring as a handle the best, the solid handled ones jar the hand to much for my liking. Also make sure that ALL flammable liquids are stored well out of the way, don't store rags etc anywhere near your work area either
    A friend of mine recently lost his shed and all his equipment, to the value of around $120,000 recently after welding in his shed. All that was left of a lot of his tools were molten blobs, his chainsaws, just the bars were left. A metal cabinet that held his flammables, was unrecognisable. Not to put you off, but just a warning of what could happen.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #18
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    Thanks for the tip on the chipping hammer. Another thing on the 'to do' list is to put a separate small shed next to the current shed for storage of the mower, whipper snipper, chainsaw, fuel, etc. I think I might make a set of curtains to cover my storage shelves as well.

  4. #19
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    G'day Steve,
    The Kobe RB26 rods are great, probably my favourite GP electrode. New RB26 rods are about the best strikers I've ever used but I've noticed the rod tends to burn up into the coating leaving an overhang of flux which can make for difficult restarts when it cools. This happens with most electrodes to a greater or lesser extent but the overhang is particularly tough with RB26 rods.

    I'd recommend having a small piece of 10mm plate say 50mm square to use as a striker plate and keep it handy for use when restarting a cold rod. Strike the used rod on the striker plate then move to your workpiece while the tip is still hot and it will strike straight away without having to tap it.
    Cheapest welding accessory you will ever own and one of the handiest, especially when you're first learning.

    Another thing worth looking for at your local scrappie is a piece of copper bus bar, say 100mm long. This can be used as a backing plate when welding thin sections and will prevent burn through, again cheap but handy as filling holes with a stick welder is a real chore.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  5. #20
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    Further to Greg's restarting comments - an old scrap file or rough concrete works well. Scrape the fluxed rod over it before restarting and it will restart almost as good as a new rod every time. Just make sure the file isn't grounded to the welder when you do it, or you might accidentally try to weld the file to the job. If you scrape the flux off you almost don't need a striker plate (but they can still be handy).

    A fan with low speed is good. Position it so that it blows all the smoke and crap away, otherwise you can feel like you're working in a bushfire (and not be able to see anything you're doing).

    Be careful welding galvanised, or painted. Fumes from the former can make you sick, the latter probably too plus they smell worse. Best to clean to bare metal or use the fan.

    Get your angles right. My biggest problem with stick welding is if I was even 5° out, I could easily screw up a weld with slag inclusion. One of the big reasons I prefer tig, no slag, no smoke, no mess.

    Try to weld in the 1g/1f position to start. Avoid 4g/4f with stick, it sucks.

    Weld from least comfortable to most comfortable.

    Avoid three way inside corners.

    Pay attention to warpage and warp prevention.

    Before you pick up anything (especially without gloves), before you lean on anything, stop and think. I've only made this mistake once or twice.

    Grinding can burn you much more effectively than welding, especially because the burn is away from the job so you're not paying attention. I've set myself on fire a couple of times. Flap discs are less likely to start a fire than grinding or cutting discs.

    Have fun.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey71 View Post
    Thanks for the tip on the chipping hammer. Another thing on the 'to do' list is to put a separate small shed next to the current shed for storage of the mower, whipper snipper, chainsaw, fuel, etc. I think I might make a set of curtains to cover my storage shelves as well.
    That's a pretty good idea. For your "curtains", look in Salvos and the like for electric blankets. If you are setting up a special area for welding, use these suspended off some curtain rod (using some heavy wire rings) to minimise sparks from welding and grinding, keep it about 75 -100 mm off the floor. Overlapping the edges about 100mm will also keep anyone walking into the shed safe from welding flash. While on the subject of welding flash, should you or anyone else get one, a few drops of full cream milk should help ease the discomfort, until able to get to medical help. I've found that it usually happens about 3.00 AM, and it feels like you've been at the beach, bringing half of it home in your eyes.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    This is not my experience and I reckon they are one of the safest discs around. Their high surface area to volume/mass ratio means that any pieces they generate are rapidly slowed down by air friction and as they have little momentum (apart from eyes) they cannot serious hurt you. I have gone through hundreds of these before I got my bandsaw but I still use them in a small table saw arrangement. I break about 10% of the discs I use. None have ever "exploded", mostly they snap off at the arbor hole and flop out on the bench - they don't go spinning off around the shed like a frisbee. The pieces that come off may raise a small welt and very few have drawn any blood. The greatest injury I sustained using one of these was when I was cutting a piece of angle that I did not realise was under compression and when the cut broke through the grinder grabbed and pushed my hand into an adjacent length of metal - the disc did not shatter, a few bruises on the hand which would have been minimised if I had been wearing gloves.

    I'm not suggesting these can be used without any due care and diligence like PPE and not using them for purposes for which they are not intended but they are not the devil of the grinding game as they are often made out to be.
    Fair point, explosive was probably the wrong term to use. They are definitely prone to breakage if side loading is applied and tend to violently break up if bumped against the work, albeit into small pieces that tend to not travel too far.
    In my opinion they are somewhat less forgiving of poor techniques than the conventional 2.5mm cutting discs which is why I find it preferable to teach people the safe use of a grinder with the thicker discs.
    You definitely need to be on the ball as far as physical damage to the disc as dropping the grinder will more often than not fracture the 1mm discs or cause other damage that will render the disc unsafe.
    1mm discs are a brilliant tool, particularly for aluminium and stainless work, but do demand a little more respect than their thicker brothers.

  8. #23
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    G'day all,
    I've finally finished my shed and I'm looking to partition off an area with screens/curtains for welding. I was hoping to draw upon your collective wisdom and ask some newbie questions please?

    How far do sparks from arc and MIG welding travel, both vertically and horizontally?
    What's the difference between a welding blanket, screen and curtain?
    What's are the different colour welding screens used for? Are they used for different processes?
    Thanks for looking.
    Last edited by Lovey71; 25th May 2017 at 08:20 PM. Reason: extra wording

  9. #24
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey71 View Post
    How far do sparks from arc and MIG welding travel, both vertically and horizontally?
    Here's a graph I extracted from an article in a Russian research paper on welding spatter.
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
    Weldingspatter.jpg

    This is for welding done on table 760 mm high and 500 mm wide.
    No information was provided on the type or Amp of the welding process.
    The formula suggests the likelihood of sparks beyond 4m distance is <1


    What's the difference between a welding blanket, screen and curtain?
    Blanket is something like leather and is used for protecting an object or surface from spatter.
    Screen and curtain block light and spatter and are the same thing.
    Sometimes screen is a rigid opaque panel like a piece of sheet metal, curtains then to be flexible and can be folded back.

    What's are the different colour welding screens used for? Are they used for different processes?
    Nothing except perhaps a fashion statement?

  10. #25
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    Blanket is something like leather and is used for protecting an object or surface from spatter.
    Fire blankets are often used for this.

    Dean

  11. #26
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    How draft is your shed? If it is draft free and you end up using lots of screens/curtains you may need some forced ventilation.

  12. #27
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    Thanks Bob,
    the area I'll have to work in is smallish, so I'll need heaps of protective screens. There's only one window on the side, but this will have a screen as the bench is under the window, however I'll have the main roller door open if I'm welding. I'm going to get a fan, either wall or floor mounted to help with fume and smoke dispersion as well.
    Thanks Dean, I've seen a few (mainly Chinese ebay ads) referring to welding/fire/everything else blanket .

  13. #28
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    Just as a follow up to this, I installed the protective curtains over the shelf unit. I made a frame out of slotted steel angle from bunnies which I used to extend the height of the rear shelf uprights. I then bolted some slotted angle across the top to make a horizontal section. I bought two 6 x 8' fibreglass welding blankets and attached them to the horizontal section with bolts through the eyelets in the blankets. I leave them on top of the shelf and roll them down as required.

    IMG_0506.jpg
    IMG_0505.jpg
    IMG_0504.jpg

    I've still got some tidying up to do before I can strike an arc though .
    Thanks for looking.

  14. #29
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    In my opinion everyone who welds should have JELONET for the inevitable burns.
    John

  15. #30
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    What does it do?

    I'm more worried about my clothes. It would have to be a pretty bad burn for me to stop working long enough to put anything on it. Waste of good work time.

    Dean

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