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Thread: Stick Welding

  1. #31
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    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    Default What to weld it with

    Ian,
    Not being one who is familiar with the metallurgical make up of stressing cable I can't advise with 100% certainty.

    My suspicion is that it is probably similar in make up to reo bar used for concreting reinforcement bars.

    Reo bar is correctly welded with the Low Hydrogen electrode or steel Mig wire LW1 which is the same material as LH electrodes. DC electrode positive for LH is even better if you have a DC stick machine.

    If you only have a stick machine I hope it has the second tapping, cause you may go nanas over trying to strike the arc for the LH electrode on the standard AC machine single tapping.

    Does this help?

    Grahame

  2. #32
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    Jul 2007
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    On the Bellarine
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    167

    Default

    What a very informative thread....certainly one that is worth cutting and pasting to your "cheat sheets" for continual reference. I will have it close to the welder now in plastic cover (not too close though ) as have been guilty of a lot of the aspects covered so eloquently in this thread by Grahame and others - grateful to see the knowledge freely given to assist others and that takes a special person who is passionate about his work .....well done Grahame and lots of greenies and cold frothies coming your way......thankyou again.....Lee

  3. #33
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    Default One more thing

    Ta, thanks for the thanks
    I have just had another rush of crap to the brain and
    thought above earth connections on welders.I may have mentioned them before but it is worth another go. As a guess I would say more than half of the welders (machines) that I see have a problem in the earth return side.

    For those welders ,a tune up is in order. With the machine switched off and disconnected, check and clean and tighten every mechanical connection.


    Where the cable connection/s screw to the welder outputs , they move and loosen and the resistance around the contact area increases and the heat up and corrode. A few minutes of work with the wire brush and a file on the flat of the connector tab yield results.
    At the other end of the cable you have your G clamp or spring loaded A clamp.
    Because we are sometimes bad welders and arc on the clamp sometimes, when the job we are trying to arc on -won't strike the electrode.

    We end up heating up the clamp and spring and weaken the clamp spring. we are creating a less than positive grip and again resistance etc etc..The mechanical connection of the cable to clamp needs inspection also.it must be tight and loosens up with movement of the cables.

    New A clamps are available and could be installed on your weld table along with a replaceable striker pad. I use a 75 x 75 x 6 plate tacked to a 12mm rod. Tacked ,note I said tacked. It makes it easy to replace.Strike an arc to start and then while the end of the stick is still red hot quickly jump across to the item to be welded and many of your striking woes will go away.

    The other bit of advice I would offer is to clean up the weld table surface regularly. The tiny spatter balls make for poor surface contact between table and job and therefore poor electrical connection.little point in having a great earthing system from machine to clamp ,if your table surface is poor.For those with problems ,I know it will make a difference.

    Catcha all later
    Grahame

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tamworth NSW
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    16

    Default What about inverter stick welders?

    I am an amateur welder (ex farmer) and used to have one of those 160amp 240V stick welders. Weighed about 20 kg and was a real pest to lug about.
    I heard from colleagues about inverter welders, and their superior welding quality, and then read an exhaustive test of the smaller units carried by Kondinin Group about 6 months ago. ( this is a farming group in WA who road tests all sort of farming gear).
    Kondinin had all the details I wanted and I ended up purchasing one of the recommended types for just over $300. It does a better job than normal stick welders, and only weighs about 3kg, so real easy to transport about. This one does the job for me.
    What do the gurus on this thread think?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Metford
    Posts
    19

    Default Inverters

    Yeah I have just been through the same transition, old transformer to new inverter.

    I think they are great, better more stable arc.
    Easier to strike the arc & more amps than my old peerless transformer welder.

    Our new unit is a Jasic Stick/tig machine. weighs about 4 or 5 kgs & is easy as hell to move around.

    I have a got a quick question for grahame though.
    How do these small electronic machines cope with workshop conditions?
    Lots of dust grinding sparks & general airborne smog around the machine both while operating & while stored.
    Does this stuff get into the circuit boards or do they cover them up well enough to protect them?

    I have a couple of kids working in our shop & they can't be persuaded to look after much of our gear. Stuffed if I know why my Father (business owner) stands for it, but that's how it goes.

  6. #36
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    Jan 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomhowell View Post
    I have a got a quick question for grahame though.
    How do these small electronic machines cope with workshop conditions?
    .
    Hi Tom, Yep I love my inverter as well,and would never go back.
    From my experience with these machines,I have to say it depends on the machine and the quality of the circuit boards.
    Some machines have the boards dipped in a phenolic resin compound.I have personally witnessed the boards on an early Eutectic inverter, removed from the machine,washed with detergent and rinsed off with the hose.The Eutectic was a re badged Fronios.This was in the coal fields and the reason for the tub up was to wash the coal dust from the gizards of the machine. It went back together and as far as I know worked perfectly.

    I completely understand your feelings about some of the juniors and their lack of empathy towards the machinery.You and I were trained to respect others property and that extended to the machines.
    Certainly I would disuade the lads from pointing the angle grinder stream towards the machine.

    If the boards in your machine are not so treated, sooner or later the blue smoke is going to be let out. I had a Thermal Dynamics AC/DC Tig do this as I demo'd a weld for a student at Tafe.
    The constant use of the angle grinder and the air borne metallic crap it makes, will certainly accelerate the failure of these machines.

    I am not saying don't use a grinder ,but say instead try and reduce the use of same and when it is used be aware of where the grinding stream is pointed. Perhaps a dust cover for it when not in use perhaps ?

    Secondly the maintainence checks on these machines may stop problems long before they begin.Getting the dust cleaned out by a specialist ( welder maintenance eleccy fella) will likely pick up steel dust build up.

    nswnotill

    I am certainly not a guru. Certainly not about lathes and machining as most here will attest.I cringe at the term.I go back to what I say about most equipment.Good name ,spare parts and back up. However if the assessment by the farmers has come up positive,it may well be an exceptional value for the $.
    Apart from the light weight,one of the best advantages is the input minimal loss of the machine.Good luck with it.

    As a final word ,can I say that the good ones are good.My wifes boss is the local Fronios agent.I asked him the other day what was the return rate.He said he has sold 350 or so of the lunch box size and has not had one back in 5 years.
    Yes the little cheap one DC stick -$1400
    Grahame

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Metford
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    19

    Default Inverter maintenance & another question

    Thanks for the advice re the metallic dust & the ingestion of same by inverter circuit boards.
    I'll hava a chat to the guy I bought the unit from & we might look at getting it cleaned out in a while, haven't had it very long.

    Another question for the guru (ha ha ha ).
    Grahame, I was reading up on Tig welding etc on the miller website that you so kindly steered me towards & I found reference to a Tig arc "dancing from plate to plate" on a fillet weld.

    Can't say I have seen my unit do this on Tig mode yet, but it does appear to do that a bit now & again whilst I'm stick welding.

    I've noticed (thinking back, having read you series of post on stick welding), that I may be holding too long an arc length.
    Do you reckon that might cause the arc to dance back & forth between the two plates?
    This phenomena is a bitch for causing slag holes in a weld (ok yeah I know it's ultimately me that causes the slag holes). It appears that if the arc feels like being on one plate at a give point during a run, you need to move the electrode to the other plate quick smart or you get a slag hole.

    What do you reckon I could do to help this ? Is there something I'm not noticing ?

    Thanks

  8. #38
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    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    Default Dancing arc

    Tom,
    Without going to the Miller site to verify it, my experience with DC power sources suggests to me that the problem may be arc blow. You will know it when it happens as the arc is repelled from where you want it to go. Repelled as in when you put two opposing magnets together.
    Its a magnetic problem, the metal in the arc pool arc being deviated by magnetic force.

    I can't recall problems with it in the Tig process, outside of the (ferrous) metal itself being magnetic before welding begins.
    The fix is either dice the metal or wrap the earth lead around and around . There is the right direction which makes it better and the wrong direction which makes it worse.

    When I worked at the refinery magnetic arc blow was a PITA as kms of pipework sit on racks and vibrates and bumps and attains magnetism.

    To stick weld them was a major deal at times, requiring the earth lead counter rotated around and around the pipe to reduce the magnetic field.

    Sometimes it was cured by re positioning the earth clamp.

    Your arc length for Tig should not be in excess of say 3 times your Tig electrode diameter.

    Grahame

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Raglan Vic. Aus
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    75
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    13

    Default

    Great thread Grahame, thanks heaps. Now my problem as a farm welder. Overhead and vertical welds I just can't seem to do them right. Could you advise on the best way to do them.

    Paul
    All these projects. Not enough lifetimes to finish them.
    Paul

  10. #40
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    Feb 2006
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Your arc length for Tig should not be in excess of say 3 times your Tig electrode diameter.

    Grahame
    Thanks for that advice Grahame, I will go and get myself some 15 mm diameter electrodes to cure my problem(s) on welding the 1 mm steel I mainly do .

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gold Coast
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    2

    Default stressing cable

    G'day Graham, thanks for the help. Could you please expain what you meant when you said second tapping. I have a cigweld compact turbo, does this have single or second tapping. I'm using 2.5 mm satincraft 13 electrodes. Are these suitible for the stressing cable? (which I think is just hardened steel). Thanks.

    Ian

  12. #42
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    Jan 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priemsy View Post
    Overhead and vertical welds I just can't seem to do them right. Could you advise on the best way to do them.
    Overhead and Vertical welds, being out of position (not the flat position) mean that the fluid molten arc is affected by gravity.

    A basic rule that one could apply is to use a smaller controllable arc >therefore a smaller electrode is required.
    One of the two 6012 or 6013 At the moment I have flu, can,t remember which is best used for out of position.

    Overhead and Vertical are very different techniques.When I feel better i can write up a tutorial on them.

    Grahame

  13. #43
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ian9toes View Post
    I'm using 2.5 mm satincraft 13 electrodes. Are these suitible for the stressing cable? (which I think is just hardened steel)
    I,d be inclined to use a Low Hydrogen electrode. If there is any stress on this part satincraft won't hold it.

    Re the tapping It is a second outlet on the machine.you can pick them as they are marked high and low voltage.
    Stainless and low hydrogen need high voltage to kick them off.Without that type of machine it can be a big pain in the bum.

    Grahame

  14. #44
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    Default Dual tapping

    Below is a pic of a machine that has a dual tapping.
    The normal attachment point for the electrode lead terminal(low voltage ) is bottom right.

    The high voltage tapping is the one with the white arrow and would be the one set up when welding with LH electrodes.


    Grahame

  15. #45
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    Default

    Thanks mate, when you can. Get better soon.

    Paul
    All these projects. Not enough lifetimes to finish them.
    Paul

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