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Thread: acetylene gas refill
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29th Mar 2015, 05:29 PM #1Novice
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acetylene gas refill
Hi
Has anybody tried to fill a acetylene bottle from another acetylene bottle?
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29th Mar 2015, 06:50 PM #2Most Valued Member
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Don't do it!
Acetylene gas is highly volatile above 150kPa and that is why it is stored in a dissolved state in acetylene cylinders. Get the filling wrong and they could well be scraping charred bits of you from a wide area after the blast makes the headlines as the latest terrorist attack.
Dare I ask why you would be wanting to decant acetylene from one cylinder to another?
I have known people to decant CO2 and Argon into smaller bottles for site use, although I do not recommend the practice.
In all seriousness, danger lies ahead as acetylene is a nasty substance if not treated with respect, having a very wide flammability range, (between 2.5-81%, propane has a much narrower 2.1-10.1% range), an incompatibility with copper (forming copper acetylide which is explosive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper%28I%29_acetylide ) and the aforementioned volatility in gaseous form above 150kPa.
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29th Mar 2015, 08:48 PM #3Most Valued Member
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That would be like using an oxy acetylene cutting torch, to break into a safe that contains explosives and gun powder.
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30th Mar 2015, 09:43 PM #4
If they did try, they won't be about to answer your question!
A acetylene cylinder is not just a hollow container filled with gas, it is filled with a fiber mass and acetone, when the bottle is filled it is a slow process as the acetylene has to be dissolved into the acetone, the central filling station (only a few in the state) also run water sprays on the bottle when filling.
Only use acetylene bottles in the upright position, otherwise acetone will come out with the acetylene and cause an explosive situation.
Never draw off at a rate more than1/7th the bottles volume per hour. Again over this rate will draw acetone.
Use flashback arrestors.
There are also fusible plugs in the top of the bottle which fuse at 100 degrees C. Keep that bottle cool!
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31st Mar 2015, 12:19 AM #5Most Valued Member
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Can anyone else remember when CIG had a fire at one of their Acetylene filling stations around 20 years ago? The exclusion zone was only slightly less than that around Chernobyl.
I hope that tore doesn't feel stupid or bullied. It was a fair question and one that was answered in the strong terms required by the gravity of the situation.
In many ways Acetylene is a safer gas than LPG, except for a few characteristics that can kill you. Thankfully, these characteristics rarely present in normal usage.
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31st Mar 2015, 01:12 PM #6
So just to summarise.
Actlyene is dangerous stuff if not handled and stored in the prescibed way......huge fuel value and very wide range of explosive potential.
The main reason Acetlyene can't be decanted is that it is disolved in acetone and requires more pressure than is present in the bottle to disolve in the aetone.....AND this process is not fast AND this process is potentially VERY VERY dangerous.
Other gasses given correct equipment and procedures can be decanted....and safely.......Acetylene most dertainly can not.
Oxygen is also very dangerous to decant but for different reasons.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.
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31st Mar 2015, 01:39 PM #7New Member
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Tore - Don't do it mate!
It goes BOOM!
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3rd Apr 2015, 01:16 PM #8Member
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Karl, you have a good memory of CIG's acetylene fire. It occured in Preston (northern Melb suburb and their major facility) around 1989/1990. I worked for CIG/BOC for 10 years and we watched the incident live on daytime television along with CIG's MD as I was in head office. Someone in the cylinder filling station decided that the acetylene cylinders should be vented prior to refilling (absolutely unnecessary and extremely dangerous). Suddenly there was a spark and acetylene cylinders began exploding and launching themselves like minature rockets. Amazingly no one was injured (as far as I can recall). Because acetylne cylinders contain a porous mass into which the acelylene is disolved when filling, the cylinder "rockets" showered the surrounding suburbs with this debris. As part of the cleanup CIG ended up vacuuming three surrounding suburbs afterwards. The production manager was also ribbed about starting his own Woomera rocket range.
Several years later, I visited a BOC cylinder filling site in the Philippines where the previous week, two people were killed (and several injured) in an acetylene explosion. Somehow they'd managed to fill some oxygen cylinders with acetylene, realised what they'd done and when they tried to vent the cylinders, the explosion occured. I can recall seeing a small crater in the concrete pavement caused by the explosion.
My memory is hazy on exact details now but I think the Australian production manager told me acetylene was explosive if there was there was greater than 3% oxygen present. Even if I haven't got this quite right, the small percentage amazed me as to how volatile acetylene was in its free state. - Peter
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3rd Apr 2015, 02:14 PM #9
as far as I understand acetylene has the widest expolsive range of any gas and the highest fuel value per volume.....um sort of what makes it such a great fuel gas.
Oh and then you have the cylinder full of acetone......one of most volotile and highest fuel value liquids we have.
So the Acetyene gets lit and warms things up and the acetone takes over.......what a fabulous rocket.
cheersAny thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
Most powertools have sharp teeth.
People are made of meat.
Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.