Thread: New to Welding

Hi all, I'm new to this welding game, but I want your thought about what type of welder should I get as I would like to do different types of welding i.e stick, mig and tig but should I buy separate machines or buy a multi purpose machine, just like someone thoughts.

Better advice would be available if you perhaps could tell us about some projects and materials you had in mind.

Originally Posted by brendone171

Hi all, I'm new to this welding game, but I want your thought about what type of welder should I get as I would like to do different types of welding i.e stick, mig and tig but should I buy separate machines or buy a multi purpose machine, just like someone thoughts.

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS I know I'll upset some one. Welding is an art, that takes time to accomplish, it is not something thing that you can put down and pick up in a months time and expect perfect welds. If I don't weld for a month, it takes me about 1/2 an hour to get back in the swing of things, I've been welding for nearly 50 years.
Do you plan on teaching yourself or going to a class?
First question I ask is, what type of things do you expect to make/repair? As this will have a relevance on what size welder to get, 100, 150 180 200 250 amp. How far away is the power point, 10 or 15 amp socket, this also has to do with size of the welder.
Second, will you be working in the open or in a shed, as if you are out in the open, a mig is worthless unless it's gasless! Gasless has its drawbacks, porosity, good only for thin metal up to 3 mm, not nice looking welds.
Do you want to pay rental on bottles? To do mig, you use an Argon/co2 mix and tig, straight argon, requiring 2 bottles of gas, for which you'll be paying something like $200 each year for rental, unless you are near bunnies and buy them outright, around $600. The small bottles you get for small mig/tig welders, are not cheap in the long run as you only get about 2-3 hours from them.
Mig is easier to learn, next is stick, then tig. There wouldn't be too many welders that could pick up a tig, weld for 5 mins, then do an arc job, then go to a mig, sure they can use them but are the welds perfect???
Sorry for all the questions but there is no simple answer.
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS I know I'll upset some one.

Not me... what you say and ask makes sense, except I would say that I found MIG to be the hardest to learn to weld PROPERLY with.

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

unless you are near bunnies and buy them outright, around $600.

I don't think bunnies sell shielding gas, only oxy/acet. but there are other outlets such as speedgas, power10gas that sell sheilding gas cylinders.

As a general opinion - there's virtually nothing that you can't weld with a AC/DC Tig welder (which also will act as a stick welder) - so if it is versatility you're after then look at these. As mentioned, you'll need argon gas for TIG welding.

If you want cheap and portable - you can do a lot with a little stick welder.

I find MIG is great for thin-walled galvanised materials.

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS I know I'll upset some one. Welding is an art, that takes time to accomplish, it is not something thing that you can put down and pick up in a months time and expect perfect welds. If I don't weld for a month, it takes me about 1/2 an hour to get back in the swing of things, I've been welding for nearly 50 years.
Do you plan on teaching yourself or going to a class?
First question I ask is, what type of things do you expect to make/repair? As this will have a relevance on what size welder to get, 100, 150 180 200 250 amp. How far away is the power point, 10 or 15 amp socket, this also has to do with size of the welder.
Second, will you be working in the open or in a shed, as if you are out in the open, a mig is worthless unless it's gasless! Gasless has its drawbacks, porosity, good only for thin metal up to 3 mm, not nice looking welds.
Do you want to pay rental on bottles? To do mig, you use an Argon/co2 mix and tig, straight argon, requiring 2 bottles of gas, for which you'll be paying something like $200 each year for rental, unless you are near bunnies and buy them outright, around $600. The small bottles you get for small mig/tig welders, are not cheap in the long run as you only get about 2-3 hours from them.
Mig is easier to learn, next is stick, then tig. There wouldn't be too many welders that could pick up a tig, weld for 5 mins, then do an arc job, then go to a mig, sure they can use them but are the welds perfect???
Sorry for all the questions but there is no simple answer.
Kryn

Thanks for your opinion, there's one thing is that you made me open my eyes again as I had all these things going through my mind, I live in the midlands of Tassie and in my 50's so being taught at TAFE is out of the question so I'm learning with the help of my Brother inlaw which I've been using his welder a Uni-mig 170, I have been doing a lot of strings and don't seem to be getting any better which as you said it takes a while to get back to where I was the day previous but I intend to be making frames for woodworking tools etc which is my first love so I will be using mainly 2-3 mm tubing, probably a small stick welder may be the go with tig as a maybe if the machine comes with it
I'm getting my shed ready for a 15amp circuit anyway but the welding will be done outside under cover
I hope this gives you an idea of what I am thinking of doing
Brendon

Originally Posted by brendone171

Thanks for your opinion, there's one thing is that you made me open my eyes again as I had all these things going through my mind, I live in the midlands of Tassie and in my 50's so being taught at TAFE is out of the question so I'm learning with the help of my Brother inlaw which I've been using his welder a Uni-mig 170, I have been doing a lot of strings and don't seem to be getting any better which as you said it takes a while to get back to where I was the day previous but I intend to be making frames for woodworking tools etc which is my first love so I will be using mainly 2-3 mm tubing, probably a small stick welder may be the go with tig as a maybe if the machine comes with it
I'm getting my shed ready for a 15amp circuit anyway but the welding will be done outside under cover
I hope this gives you an idea of what I am thinking of doing
Brendon

Hi Brendon, I went to TAFE in my early fifties, so age is no barrier. Yes, the stick welder, with tig probably the best way to go, Repco and others sell a stick welder with a tig set up as an extra, around the $175 mark for the tig accessory, as I said before, the gas bottles don't last long. Tig is ideal for really thin work, stainless or ally with the right welder. 2-3 mm tubing is probably easier with stick, as you can basically rest the rod in the corner once the arc is started, and just let it burn down. Speaking of burning down, when welding outside, make sure that you have a fire hose handy as the sparks can go a fair distance, same as cutting or grinding. Check out the number of fires that are started by grinding or welding.
Kryn

I would agree with KB on this one. Go for the stick welder.
You have several directions you could take. AC buzz box welder - bottom of my list. DC inverter, which will be portable, TIG capable, (even if it does not specifically say it, and DC constant current power source will run a TIG arc). Or AC/DC TIG welder, which will have the best versatility, being able to weld Aluminium if that's your desire, the best TIG performance and convenience along with the ability to stick weld. These features come with a trade off though. Greater cost, less portability and potentially more susceptible to rough handling and knocks.
If Aluminium is not your game and TIG is more the icing on the cake than your bread and butter, then a decent DC inverter will suit you perfectly. 10A models will push 130 odd amps, running 3.2mm electrodes superbly while 15A supply models will give in the realm of 170-200A depending on model, which will burn 4mm electrodes as well as you could want. For 2-3mm material, you will be running 2.5mm and maybe 3.2's, but definitely not 4mm electrodes, which are a serious bit of gear and more suited to 5mm+ sections.

[QUOTE=Karl Robbers;1839544]I would agree with KB on this one. Go for the stick welder.

thanks to both you and KB for the info and with what has been said I'm thinking along the lines of a small inverter and if I really start getting the taste of welding then I will consider what to do then.
the both of you have stopped me thinking to far ahead and keep on practicing
another thing though what sort of welding rod would be better for this as it seems that everyone seems to have a favorate as I have been using 6013 American I know

thanks again

As well as lots of practice I reckon for welding having someone who knows how to weld that can watch you from time to time to point out how to improve things really helps. I did TAFE evening classes for a term which got me started, but I learned more from a couple of hours spent with boilermaker BIL.

Even if they can't watch you directly, show them what you've done and just be prepared to take some criticism.

[QUOTE=brendone171;1839581]

Originally Posted by Karl Robbers

I would agree with KB on this one. Go for the stick welder.

thanks to both you and KB for the info and with what has been said I'm thinking along the lines of a small inverter and if I really start getting the taste of welding then I will consider what to do then.
the both of you have stopped me thinking to far ahead and keep on practicing
another thing though what sort of welding rod would be better for this as it seems that everyone seems to have a favorate as I have been using 6013 American I know

thanks again

Brendon, the 6013 that you refer to is a code. This was taken from our friend Google


The American Welding Society (AWS) numbering system can tell a welder quite a bit about a specific stick electrode including what application it works best in and how it should be used to maximize performance. With that in mind, let's take a look at the system and how it works.
The prefix "E" designates an arc welding electrode. The first two digits of a 4-digit number and the first three digits of 5-digit number indicate minimum tensile strength. For example, E6010 is a 60,000 psi tensile strength electrode while E10018 designates a 100,000 psi tensile strength electrode.

E	60	1	10
Electrode	Tensile Strength	Position	Type of Coating and Current

The next to last digit indicates position. The "1" designates an all position electrode, "2" is for flat and horizontal positions only; while "4" indicates an electrode that can be used for flat, horizontal, vertical down and overhead. The last 2 digits taken together indicate the type of coating and the correct polarity or current to use. See chart below:

Digit	Type of Coating	Welding Current
0	High cellulose sodium	DC+
1	High cellulose potassium	AC, DC+ or DC-
2	High titania sodium	AC, DC-
3	High titania potassium	AC, DC+
4	Iron powder, titania	AC, DC+ or DC-
5	Low hydrogen sodium	DC+
6	Low hydrogen potassium	AC, DC+
7	High iron oxide, iron powder	AC, DC+ or DC-
8	Low hydrogen potassium, iron powder	AC, DC+ or DC-

As a welder, there are certain electrodes that you will most likely see and use time and time again as you go about your daily operations. A DC machine produces a smoother arc. DC rated electrodes will only run on a DC welding machine. Electrodes which are rated for AC welding are more forgiving and can also be used with a DC machine. Here are some of the most common electrodes and how they are typically used:
E6010
DC only and designed for putting the root bead on the inside of a piece of pipe, this is the most penetrating arc of all. It is tops to dig through rust, oil, paint or dirt. It is an all-position electrode that beginning welders usually find extremely difficult, but is loved by pipeline welders worldwide. Lincoln Fleetweld® 5P+ sets the standard in this category.
E6011
This electrode is used for all-position AC welding or for welding on rusty, dirty, less-than-new metal. It has a deep, penetrating arc and is often the first choice for repair or maintenance work when DC is unavailable. The most common Lincoln product is Fleetweld® 180 for hobby and novice users. Industrial users typically prefer Fleetweld® 35.

Hope this helps
Kryn

Hi brendone171,
I have a lincoln redi mig 255 amp and a old 220 amp all copper peerless stick welder, good for about 5mm rods, but a 15a outlet is needed. Once you get good with the stick welder it will do most of what you want to do, in your shed or outside. With rods as small as 1.75 mm you can with the right technique weld 1 mm sheet metal. machines around 140 amps could limit you a little if you want to weld plate like 10mm. For machines with less amperage i would recommend plugging directly into the outlet if possible. I found that its always good to have a little extra power if its needed a good inverter machine would be the ticket. I really like my mig welder with Argon CO2 gas and found that when set up right, i much prefer to weld with it than my stick welder, i found it a bit more forgiving although having to purchase gas and deal with rental and return bottles is a drawback, and in my opinion if your going to use flux core wire in your mig you might as well just use a stick welder.

Thanks for this info, the more I am thinking about it I think an inverter stick welder will be the way to go for me as I'm not going to heavy duty metal, just want something to fabricate light tubing etc but I also not going to do a she'll be right type of welds neither but at the moment I can't afford for the education to weld, but I am trying my best by getting information from the net

good luck with your welding journey !

local auction rooms and junk shops have gotten plenty of blokes into welding very cheaply.

check local papers and ebay etc for good deals.

Just a little note on KB's post about electrode classifications. At the bottom of the post, mention is made that E 6010 and E6011 are some of the most common electrodes seen and used. Only in America, they are besotted with the damn things, commonly known here as "firesticks".
They have a fierce arc and are not going to be your friends at all. Australia's staple electrodes are the XX12 and XX13 electrodes, commonly referred to as rutile electrodes. Much nicer for sheet metal and general fabrication. If you need to delve into the higher strength electrodes, then WIA 16TC are very well respected for their ease of running and generally forgiving characteristics.
The Gemini range of electrodes are a good electrode that won't break the bank as are Murex Speedex 12, with Nubco stocking the Gemini's and Bunnings the Murex brand in Tassie. Be very careful buying electrodes from hardware stores as they are notorious for gouging you on price.
While we all love our DC inverter stick welders, if you happened to come across a good quality AC stick welder second hand then that would also give you good service for general fabrication, but would be less portable and not be TIG capable at a latter stage. A good entry level DC inverter can be had for $3-400 from a choice of manufacturers.

Thanks for this info, as it is much appreciated, I have been looking at a DC inverter from the BOC Ebay site I have ask them if they are getting more in and at the same price and they are, it is cheap $154 RRP $220 with free delivery for a 160 amp machine with TIG, I thought this wasn't to bad
I have to go to Launny on Sat to get more electrodes so thankyou for that info as well