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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
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    900

    Default Shopping list to convert to CO2 MIG (well GMAW really)

    OK fellas, I'm keen to make the step to 100% CO2 for my MIG welding after a couple of years on Ar/CO2/O2 mix. My current usage is just over one 'G' cylinder a year. I know there's a few posts floating around on this, but I'd appreciate a recap and some contemporary advice.
    • What's the best deal on a CO2 cylinder? This one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia...item1c49e62d8f at $199 for a 6Kg version looks OK. Any better ones?
    • What about refills/cylinder swaps - what's the best deal/system? I'm in Ballina northern NSW. Swap/postage pricing?
    • I have a standard Argon/CO2 regulator, but I'm guessing the connector thread/size is different - where to get an adapter? online source?

    Thanks
    - Mick

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    100

    Default

    If your using a G per year 6KG home brew will last you 5 minutes

    Surely G cylinders would justify rental?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    You get *far* more gas for the volume with CO2 compared to argon mixes as the CO2 converts to its liquid state whereas the argon mixes remain a gas. Someone did the calc in another thread somewhere.

    Gasweld stock CO2 regs - I think they were around $85 last time I checked. Haven't seen them anywhere else.

    The other addition I made was an adapter to go from the Jamec female on the end of my CO2 reg hose to Nitto female so I can connect my tyre inflator to it. You can then take a PET bottle, fit a tyre valve stem to the cap and carbonate pretty much any liquid (chill the liquid, keep the pressure down, and shake between doses of gas).

    Try that with your fancy Argoshield.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mac_man_luke View Post
    If your using a G per year 6KG home brew will last you 5 minutes

    Surely G cylinders would justify rental?
    Roughly speaking, a 'G' gives less than 20 hours welding. My use is sporadic, so I might use half a cylinder in 1 week, and the other half in the last 6 months of the year. Rent costs me a bit less than $200/year. I've looked at E size etc. before, but it still worked out better economically to have G size although I'd much rather have a more portable shielding supply - hence my interest in CO2.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    You get *far* more gas for the volume with CO2 compared to argon mixes as the CO2 converts to its liquid state whereas the argon mixes remain a gas. Someone did the calc in another thread somewhere.
    I think that was me. By my calcs 6Kg CO2 = about 3000 litres = 5 hours welding roughly.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    Gasweld stock CO2 regs - I think they were around $85 last time I checked. Haven't seen them anywhere else.
    I've got a reg, it even has CO2 graduations, I just need to find where to get a thread adapter.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    carbonate pretty much any liquid
    I can't think of a worthwhile beverage that doesn't already have bubbles

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Hi Mick,

    I use the Q size for CO2. It typically lasts me 10 to 15 days of welding. No idea what my weld-on duty cycle is. My supplier calls it a 40 lb cylinder but I can feel that it weighs a lot more after filling. You can use an argon regulator but you need a CGA 680 to 320 adapter like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Styl...item4adcba36b6. Be sure to get some extra seals too http://www.ebay.com/itm/Co2-O-Ring-W...item3384d1147c. They have a tendency to get lost or damaged when you need them. Shop around for better prices, I just used these links as examples so you could see some pictures.

    Cheers,
    Rob

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rob streeper View Post
    I use the Q size for CO2...... My supplier calls it a 40 lb cylinder
    Thanks Rob, I couldn't find much about this size except this pic from BOC, but if it's a 40lb'er then I guess it stores about that weight of CO2. Do you rent or own the cylinder?

    Capture.JPG

    Quote Originally Posted by rob streeper View Post
    You can use an argon regulator but you need a CGA 680 to 320 adapter like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Styl...item4adcba36b6. Be sure to get some extra seals too http://www.ebay.com/itm/Co2-O-Ring-W...item3384d1147c.
    That's exactly the sort of info I'm after.

    I'd love comments from anyone who has bought an ebay cylinder

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WelderMick View Post
    Thanks Rob, I couldn't find much about this size except this pic from BOC, but if it's a 40lb'er then I guess it stores about that weight of CO2. Do you rent or own the cylinder?

    Capture.JPG


    That's exactly the sort of info I'm after.

    I'd love comments from anyone who has bought an ebay cylinder
    Mick,

    I bought my cylinder. Fully charged with gas it was about $190 and refills are $45, rentals typically are in the range of $10-$15 per month here. This one is supposedly sold by weight but I can tell it has been loaded with significantly more than 40 lbs when they recharge it. In this area refills of gasses don't scale directly to the size of the cylinder. For instance I have one of the small oxy-acetylene rigs for HVAC type work and refills of the acetylene run about $30. The 75 C.F. acetylene tank on my bigger oxy rig runs about $65 to refill and it holds much more gas.

    If you can get the polyethylene seals. The Teflon seals are more expensive and they deform more easily making re-use more difficult. Either way you only need to tighten them about 1/4 turn past hand-tight to form an effective seal, any more and you can get leaks.

    I don't know what your local prices are like but for me buying on eBay would have been more expensive than buying the cylinder from the welding supply.

    If you go with the CGA adapter make sure that you get one of the right sex, i.e. female on both ends. You don't want the one made for attachment of a CO2 regulator to an argon tank. When you use it tighten the adapter to the regulator first and then attach the combined regulator-adapter to the tank. If you attach the adapter to the tank and then attach the argon regulator to the adapter you run the risk of deforming the sealing gasket and creating a leak. Test the fit-up by putting a little water containing some dishwashing detergent on the joint and look for bubbles after you're done. If you want a commercial bubble leak test fluid they sell one for picking up gas leaks in the plumbing departments of the larger home improvement supply stores. Snoop is another option but ridiculously expensive.

    Cheers,
    Rob

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Thanks Rob, good info there.
    - Mick

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    429

    Default

    Surely if you where to use a standard industral gass CO2 bottle standard RH thred pol regs would fit.

    And unless you where pulling volume, there would be no necessity for a specilaised CO2 reg.

    and in Balaina, you should not be too far away from the speedgas agent.

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundman View Post
    and in Balaina, you should not be too far away from the speedgas agent.
    But is Speedgas as cheap as an Ebay beer gas bottle and beer gas refills from the homebrew shop?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Worth checking out, you will get a bigger bottle then.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    But is Speedgas as cheap as an Ebay beer gas bottle and beer gas refills from the homebrew shop?
    I doubt it - but I've sent an email to them anyway. I'm happy to rent for my TIG argon usage, but I assumed for my MIG usage a self-owned beer gas setup would be best solution. Rusty - can you provide details on our setup?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
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    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mac_man_luke View Post
    Worth checking out, you will get a bigger bottle then.
    I actually like the idea of a smaller bottle, as long as I can get it refilled quickly, easily and when I need to. G bottles are a pain.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
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    429

    Default

    Consider that I believe speed gas supply some of the home brew shops, small post mix users and low volume liquer outlets, it will be worth checking out.

    As far as renting for your argon.....hell man...get a price from speedgas....unless you are a volume user and on a deal.....you will be ahead in the second year.

    cheers
    Any thing with sharp teeth eats meat.
    Most powertools have sharp teeth.
    People are made of meat.
    Abrasives can be just as dangerous as a blade.....and 10 times more painfull.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundman View Post
    Consider that I believe speed gas supply some of the home brew shops, small post mix users and low volume liquer outlets, it will be worth checking out.

    As far as renting for your argon.....hell man...get a price from speedgas....unless you are a volume user and on a deal.....you will be ahead in the second year.

    cheers
    Well - I pay through the nose for gas, so I'm pretty sure I'm not on a deal. I don't use much in the scheme of things.
    I'll be very interested in speedgas' response. No local agent that I know of, closest listed is a bit over 1hr drive away. I used to have a BOC account, now I go through a coregas agent.

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