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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
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    SA
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    19

    Default Multiprocess machine for someone new to welding

    Hi everyone, I'm looking at buying a multi process welding machine for home handyman type work. So odd jobs welding mild steel up to say 5mm odd thick (making shelving etc.) and in the distant future car body panel rust repairs, car exhausts etc.

    I'd like to stay with a 10 Amp plug, and am looking at starting with using arc (stick) and gasless MIG. Then possibly TIG? Initially I'm going to give it a go myself using online resources to help the learning curve. I've got plenty of steel lying around to experiment with and the time. (I know I should do some sort of welding course given my lack of experience.)

    As far as machines go, I've been looking at something along the lines of - Unimig VIPER Inverter 185, CIG Weldskill 185, Lincoln Electric Powercraft 191C etc. Any thoughts on those or other brands/ models as a long term proposition for reliability, parts availability in the future... I won't be using the machine daily or doing huge amounts of welding in one go.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Gulfview Heights, Adelaide
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Will you want to TIG weld aluminium in the future? If so, you will need an AC/DC welder, something like the Lincoln Powercraft 200M.

    If you decide to buy a welder on-line, check the warranty details carefully. If you have to post the welder back at your
    expense for warranty claims the costs can soon add up.

    Paul

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul33 View Post
    .... If you decide to buy a welder on-line, check the warranty details carefully. If you have to post the welder back at your
    expense for warranty claims the costs can soon add up. Paul
    Good advise there , try and buy from the local tool shop as if it has any problems , the shop will organise the repair for you through the manufacturer so no postage costs.

    i have the CIG 185 , 4 in 1 , good little machine and had no problems after 12 months moderate use , priced is around $800 , also it does not come standard with tig torch.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    I bought one of these:
    Couldn’t be happier. (Unless I could have picked it up locally)
    I bought the MMA leads and it seems great as a stick welder.
    All the auto settings are great for getting going.

    https://swswelding.com.au/collection...-dc-tig-welder

    The support has been above and beyond: including commenting/advising on pictures of welds I’ve texted and recommending a spectacular (and cheapish) welding helmet that they don’t sell.

    You can save $700 if you don’t want to weld Aluminium (No AC)

    Mine came with useful accessories. Some are cheaper, then you buy the foot pedal etc….

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    They seem to have been updated a couple of times in the last few years but the manual on the WEB site is dated 2017 and the picture in the manual differs from that on the WEB site.

    Do you have a link to the current manual?

    Thanks
    Jack

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul33 View Post
    Will you want to TIG weld aluminium in the future? If so, you will need an AC/DC welder, something like the Lincoln Powercraft 200M.

    If you decide to buy a welder on-line, check the warranty details carefully. If you have to post the welder back at your
    expense for warranty claims the costs can soon add up.

    Paul
    Thanks for the reply.

    Aluminium- possibly. From a bit of reading, an (optional) spool gun would enable MIG welding on aluminium- is that correct? Doing a bit of browsing yesterday I found the Lincoln spool gun is about half the price of the Unimig gun. But IIRC the Lincoln doesn't come with the TIG torch standard and the Unimig does. Lincoln has better duty cycles.

    I am planning on buying from somewhere local so any warranty problems won't result in major headaches and costly transport costs. I'm in suburban Adelaide so there are a few choices in retailers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    I bought one of these:
    Couldn’t be happier. (Unless I could have picked it up locally)
    I bought the MMA leads and it seems great as a stick welder.
    All the auto settings are great for getting going.

    https://swswelding.com.au/collection...-dc-tig-welder

    The support has been above and beyond: including commenting/advising on pictures of welds I’ve texted and recommending a spectacular (and cheapish) welding helmet that they don’t sell.

    You can save $700 if you don’t want to weld Aluminium (No AC)

    Mine came with useful accessories. Some are cheaper, then you buy the foot pedal etc….
    Thanks. I'd need to get a 15 Amp outlet installed (possibly requiring major fuse box changes to add in a 2nd row of circuit breakers.) That's their own brand and they're the only retailer by the looks of it?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Ryan View Post
    They seem to have been updated a couple of times in the last few years but the manual on the WEB site is dated 2017 and the picture in the manual differs from that on the WEB site.

    Do you have a link to the current manual?

    Thanks
    Jack
    Yes, they have updated the machine.
    The company seem to have the philosophy “as welders, we design/update the machine based on our experience and feedback from users”

    I think this is the latest guide. More at “support” “operation manuals”.
    http://specialisedweldingsystems.com...CK%20START.pdf

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by confusion rules View Post
    ... Lincoln has better duty cycles.
    For TIG and steel the rule of thumb is around 40A per mm thickness, for Stick, a 2.5mm electrode (the usual size people run, available in just about every hardware store) you need around 50 to 75A. Depends on type of weld, thickness etc. For stick you can get away with something like a 30 to 50% duty cycle because by the time you change electrodes, set up the joint, chip the slag off and so on, that's about your arc time. If the duty cycle at say 70A is less than that range, consider carefully. I once saw a welder with about 10% at 70A. Next to useless.

    I can't say how to judge duty cycle on MIG. I will say that I don't like gasless MIG as it is very spattery. I get by quite nicely on TIG and stick these days - for odd jobs here and there I can't see much advantage in having MIG, particularly as MIG welds can look good but be garbage underneath. As an inexperienced welder that may not be the best technology to start with.

    Michael

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    Yes, they have updated the machine.
    The company seem to have the philosophy “as welders, we design/update the machine based on our experience and feedback from users”

    I think this is the latest guide. More at “support” “operation manuals”.
    http://specialisedweldingsystems.com...CK%20START.pdf
    Yes, that's the later model but it's the quick start guide - not the manual.

    Thanks
    Jack

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by confusion rules View Post
    Thanks. I'd need to get a 15 Amp outlet installed (possibly requiring major fuse box changes to add in a 2nd row of circuit breakers.) That's their own brand and they're the only retailer by the looks of it?
    While I would never recommend it. Mine is regularly used on a 10amp outlet via my “special” extension lead. (Modified to plug my 15A camper into a 10A outlet. Not recommend or “legal”.)

    Again, purely for information, a 15A outlet is on the same wiring/fuse as a 10A circuit. The difference is: only one outlet. So if you weld, don’t use your grinder at the same time.

    I understand that SWS in Melbourne get these machines built to their specs. (In China &#128553
    Mines been great. I’m completely new to Aluminium welding, and am stoked with my progress.
    Future support would rely on one company, that could conceivably disappear.

    I have no association with the company. Just really happy with the machine, and ecstatic with the after sales service.

    I think it’s a good option if you need AC for Aluminium, and it’s in your price range.
    I assume their DC only machine would be similar, but cheaper if AC is not required.

    I’m ridiculously happy to be able to weld aluminium.
    I’ve TIG’d and Stick welded up to 5mm steel so far. No issues.

  12. #12
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    Nov 2021
    Location
    SA
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    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    I can't say how to judge duty cycle on MIG. I will say that I don't like gasless MIG as it is very spattery. I get by quite nicely on TIG and stick these days - for odd jobs here and there I can't see much advantage in having MIG, particularly as MIG welds can look good but be garbage underneath. As an inexperienced welder that may not be the best technology to start with.
    I was actually wondering if I could/ should do the same and not bother with looking for a machine with the MIG function? Given it's only going to be for odd jobs (stick would do for most stuff I'd imagine) and there appears to be more that can go wrong mechanically with the wire feed with a MIG. So go for stick and TIG (with AC and DC.)

  13. #13
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    Nov 2021
    Location
    SA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    While I would never recommend it. Mine is regularly used on a 10amp outlet via my “special” extension lead. (Modified to plug my 15A camper into a 10A outlet. Not recommend or “legal”.)

    Again, purely for information, a 15A outlet is on the same wiring/fuse as a 10A circuit. The difference is: only one outlet. So if you weld, don’t use your grinder at the same time.
    I'd be using it in the back shed which has a long cable run to it from the house meter box. From recently putting up a new shed I worked out there is only a 10 Amp breaker on that circuit- all the others for GPO's are 16 Amp. So I'm not sure why it's been done that way or if the 240V cable used is the correct gauge for that run length. (The old shed I replaced had the power running to it before we bought the place.)

    PS: You can also get things like this https://ampfibian.com.au/product/micro/ to legally run 15A appliances off 10A outlets. I'm guessing it just trips if you dial the welder's current right up? I could try that out if I went with a 15 Amp machine and pay to get the wiring redone if it trips too often.


    MICRO 15AMP Power Adaptor

    The Ampfibian MICRO 15A Power Adaptor is our most compact power adaptor. Designed for indoor/undercover it can be used at home in the garage, shed, laundry or wherever space is tight.
    The Ampfibian MICRO is certified to comply with Australian electrical standards, allowing safe and legal connection between 15A devices and 10A domestic power supply. It comes with a miniature circuit breaker which acts as a 10A power limiter, protecting your power point and wiring from overheating.
    The MICRO also comes with an RCD (residual current device) to protect against electrocution. For extra peace of mind, The MICRO comes with a 2 year product warranty.

    (The SWS machines only being supplied/ sold by the one interstate company concerns me a bit.)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Sunshine Coast QLD
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by confusion rules View Post
    I was actually wondering if I could/ should do the same and not bother with looking for a machine with the MIG function? Given it's only going to be for odd jobs (stick would do for most stuff I'd imagine) and there appears to be more that can go wrong mechanically with the wire feed with a MIG. So go for stick and TIG (with AC and DC.)

    That’s what I’ve done and I’m really happy.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
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    2,651

    Default

    Unless you are going to be doing a lot of welding I’d suggest forget about MIG for a start.
    Get a nice little inverter stick/TIG machine and some GP rods and start gluing stuff together with that.
    If the machine comes with a TIG torch then even better, but don’t launch into the TIG straight away.
    If you get even half a packet of stick rods burnt and criticize the results as you go then you will be in a much better place to start learning TIG.

    Probably more important than the machine itself is being able to see what you are doing, so don’t cheap out on your welding helmet. No need to go really high end, but expect to be spending $150-200.
    I’ve got a WeldSkill one that I’m quite happy with. Think it cost me about $180 a couple of years ago.
    Don’t forget to change the clear front cover lens on it periodically and at least throw a glove over it when it’s not on your noggin to stop it getting covered in grinding dust and crap.

    Entry level welders are consumable IMO. If you buy something sub $1000 then expect a 5yr life and anything after they is a bonus. By the time it’s that old it won’t be economic to repair, and you’ll probably take the opportunity to upgrade.

    Finally - forget about repairing car exhausts. They are the spawn of the devil and should only ever be welded by someone (else) who has a hoist and a well set up MIG.
    Lying on your back under a car getting covered in spatter welding up a hole in a crappy contaminated rusty muffler or bit of pipe is right up there with poking bamboo under your fingernails for enjoyment.

    Steve

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