Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 289
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    1

    Default Gas flow

    Gas suppliers recommend a flow rate of between 14-17 lpm. Too little & the gas shield is not effective. Too much & you risk turbulence in the weld pool that can also result in porosity. You can use strait carbon dioxide, but for a good finish I recommend using a mixture of argon/ carbon dioxide. They sell with ranges between 2 & 30%. Hint- the more carbon dioxide added, the hotter the arc and broader / deeper the weld shape.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    NW NSW
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1

    Default

    In the latest AIS catalogue they are showing 2.0L disposable bottles. Available Argon, Argon/CO2, C02. Also regulator with gauge to suit. Manufacturer trademark is BossGass ie Boss Weld. Cylinders $60 each and regulator with gauge $35.

    From a cost perspective still expensive but better than other disposables I have seen.

    Regards

    Woodie T

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Quindanning, WA
    Posts
    175

    Default

    ive been using co2 for a few years and find it great... no problems with weld finish that ive noticed. in the end i bought a second cylinder so i have a spare as i'm in the bush and dont go to perth too often if i can help it. trick is to find the right place for refills, i use a very helpful bloke who does it for $30 while i wait. think he normally does a lot of fire extinguisher refills.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Don't know if any economic sense could come from this but this wacky idea is straight off the top of my head.

    Do these CO2 bottles run at the same pressure as argon or argon mix. If so is there any high pressure pumping means of transferring the argon from a rented argon bottle to your owned CO2 bottle(s). Don't know how much the minimum rent is for but you could just about have the bottle returned the next day.

    So the up front cost would be CO2 bottle(s), the HP compressor, and the hoses / fittings / gauges for the setup. Then ongoing costs would be minimum bottle rental you'd pay even if you only had the cylinder for 1 day. You'd have to pay that each time you got a "refill". I'm not mentioning the gas cost because you pay for that regardless, although I beleive you get more gas per $ if you rent a large cylinder, so if you've got enough capacity in CO2 bottles it would make sense to go that route.

    This has even got me thinking if it's possible to make a little high pressure piston pump with my lathe and milling machine. It would certainly feel good beating this rental crap I mean I've owned a scuba cylinder (3400 psi on your back) for 2 decades and all you have to do is get it tested periodically. Anyone heard of any scuba cylinders blowing up under normal use ??? They get banged about in vehicles, boats, etc.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Woodie - I like your thinkn
    I'm not sure if it's feasible, but my deal on gas bottle rental is $0.50 per day (no minimum term). So if your system worked, my rental bill would be about $2 a year !
    At the moment I rent G size bottles because it's more economic - but it would be much nicer to have smaller more portable bottles - the big ones are a pain.
    Just started reading this Cascade storage system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which might lead somewhere
    Cheers
    - Mick

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    If the gasses involved are in their liquid state (I have no idea if that's the case for Argon mixes) then you should be able to decant from one vessel to another, like you do with filling LPG bottles. The receiving vessel would need some kind of vent though, and the whole thing scares me slightly.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default

    I think the argon is just compressed gas but not 100% certain. Good point there.

    That's very interesting about the bottles being on a day rate. I'd have a grin stretching to the back of my ears when returning a cylinder completely empty after a days use. I'd tell them either it was a big emergency job or the valve was accidentally left open

    The first part of the transfer would be done simply by the difference in pressure then when the pressures equalised the HP pump would have to take over. You could suck every bit out of the rental cylinder until it reached atmospheric pressure. Pulling a vacuum on it might give the game away about how the cylinder was emptied so quickly LOL. It also could potentially be bad for other welders too because the rental cylinder could suck in air if the valve was opened then it would have contaminated argon in it. I can see that stirring up a stink with the big gas companies, they'd want blood (in addition to what they're already sucking).

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    13

    Default

    I've got to say this about you guys, you sure run with an idea once started!
    Soon you'll be able to spot the welders by the weather balloons floating above their houses and the argon in their ute tyres (and all the empty argon cylinders out the front after one day rental!)

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    the whole thing scares me slightly.
    That's what makes it a good idea

    Actually, I ran through the calcs just looking at gas equilisation (no pumping) between 1 G size bottle and 3 self-owned D size bottles (which I think are about 5L water capacity, 6.8Kg CO2). My G cylinder is 20,000 KPa, 10m3 argon. I think BOC are lower pressure/capacity.

    What happens, if you can follow the spreadsheet pic, is that once you siphon off your argon into your own 3 little bottles, you are still left with 7.5 m3 (or thereabouts) out of your original 10 m3 of argon in the rental cylinder, so you'd want to use that up first before you returned the cylinder. If you used a smaller rental cylinder then you get a higher proportion of gas transferred into your bottles, but of course then the gas fill costs are proportionally more than for a big G cylinder. Obviously you'd want to pump it, rather than rely on pressure equalisation for this sort of scheme to have any legs at all.

    Cost wise you'd be up for 3 x $350 for 6.8Kg CO2 cylinders, some valving and connectors, probably a heap of leaked/wasted gas and of course - still some cylinder rental. Let's say $1,500 outlay (without a HP pump). That's about 8 years worth of G size bottle rental for me. Plus there's the hassle, the danger and the repairs/replacements. For TIG you would have to purge the CO2 from your cylinders. For MIG, no problem: use the CO2, then any residual gives you your own version of argoshield. You'd want to put in a one-way valve to stop the original argon bottle getting contaminated with CO2.

    There's some advantages - you'd always have some spare cylinders on hand when you run out on the weekend. Or you could share costs with mates, etc. But in the end I doubt whether it would make economic sense without some way to pump.

    - Mick

    gas calcs.JPG

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    155

    Default

    I'm wondering where a large scuba air storage cylinder could be bought. My tanks rating was 232 bar (about 3400 psi). I'm guessing one large tank is cheaper than 3 smaller ones. Unless of course 3 in-test normal scuba tanks could be had for a good price. And of course clearly mark them and change the tank valve style, don't want somebody doing scuba with argon

    I wouldn't consider this idea unless I could make the little pump, couldn't bear the thought of giving them all that gas back.

    Seems the whole thing rests on initial purchase price of tanks, parts and HP pump.

    I don't think I'd use this system for transferring oxygen, that's stuffs dangerous enough at atmospheric pressure, never mind pumping it under high pressure.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    There's plenty of threads around about decanting LPG, which apart from the leak/flammability issue, is pretty easy because of the liquid phase. You could do it without a pump if you had some mates that were willing to share the cost. The biggest user rents the big cylinder, and the other guys offset the cost a bit by taking home some small (but 90% full) self-owned bottles.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default argon - CO2 regulator adapter

    BTW, is this what is required to be able to connect a normal argon regulator to one of those ebay 6.8kg CO2 cylinders?

    argon regulator adapter | eBay

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    margaret river
    Posts
    6

    Default

    am having the same problem, i use a mig, i hate gasless and wont pay rental so am looking to buy a bottle.

    found this for $136 or so, shipped! will people fill it or as its from the us will they turn it away? could get it au tested???

    5 lb CO2 Tank Aluminum Cylinder for Homebrew Draft Beer or Soda | eBay

    and this for $180 shipped.

    20 CF Welding Cylinder w Valve Argon NIT Hel CGA580 | eBay.

    thoughts n stuff please.

    Im in the southwest, near margaret river, anyone else around here with solutions to this problem?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    30

    Default Co2

    Quote Originally Posted by bushy79 View Post
    am having the same problem, i use a mig, i hate gasless and wont pay rental so am looking to buy a bottle.

    found this for $136 or so, shipped! will people fill it or as its from the us will they turn it away? could get it au tested???

    5 lb CO2 Tank Aluminum Cylinder for Homebrew Draft Beer or Soda | eBay

    and this for $180 shipped.

    20 CF Welding Cylinder w Valve Argon NIT Hel CGA580 | eBay.

    thoughts n stuff please.

    Im in the southwest, near margaret river, anyone else around here with solutions to this problem?
    Bushy, might be better to get an aussie home brew bottle, the yanks use a different thread on their bottles
    I bought a co2 stem and nut to convert my argon regulator to co2
    Home brew shops fill the bottle

    Ken

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ballina, NSW
    Posts
    900

    Default

    This is probably a better option to look at 6.8kg CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 GAS CYLINDER BOTTLE HOME BREW BEER | eBay

Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. E versus G argon cylinder pricing
    By WelderMick in forum WELDING
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 1st Jul 2011, 01:19 AM
  2. How much Argon left in cylinder?
    By matt_o in forum WELDING
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28th Nov 2007, 06:00 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •