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Thread: cig 175i or 200

  1. #1
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    Default cig 175i or 200

    Anyone have a preference for one or the other? There's about $100 between them. I'll only ever be welding at home in the garage, so portability is not a huge consideration. I'm more concerned about the durability of these new inverter units; read somewhere they'll fail early. I'm a noob, will probably just stick with gasless mig and arc welds for 2-4mm SHS. So what do you guys think I should get? The 200 has more power which I probably won't ever use, as it needs something like a 30 amp plug- but it does look more robust, and looks to have a better duty cycle. The 175i is smaller and easier to store; what else does it have going for it?

    Cheers,
    Fatty

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty500 View Post
    Anyone have a preference for one or the other? There's about $100 between them. I'll only ever be welding at home in the garage, so portability is not a huge consideration. I'm more concerned about the durability of these new inverter units; read somewhere they'll fail early. I'm a noob, will probably just stick with gasless mig and arc welds for 2-4mm SHS. So what do you guys think I should get? The 200 has more power which I probably won't ever use, as it needs something like a 30 amp plug- but it does look more robust, and looks to have a better duty cycle. The 175i is smaller and easier to store; what else does it have going for it?

    Cheers,
    Fatty
    Two VERY different machines.
    The 175i will perform mig, stick and tig welding, (do you need all three of these processes?) while the 200 is a straight mig unit.
    The 200 has one big advantage mig wise in that it will take a standard 15kg spool of wire while the 175i takes smaller and far more expensive rolls.
    One feature of the 175i that I am not sure I like is the vrd, it has been a source of fatal, (not economical to repair), failures in several welders that I am aware of and is not required for most applications. The 200 would require no more than a 15A power point I should imagine. On the subject of duty cycle it appears that the 175i may in fact have a superior duty cycle, 25% @ 175A versus 15% @ 190 A. To be honest, your 2-4mm welding requirement could be handled quite effectively by a stick welder, but I can understand you wanting a mig for their perceived ease of use, just don't be overly swayed by the mig's ability to weld Aluminium and Stainless Steel as both these metals require a higher level of skill etc. and it is not as simple as just changing gas and wire, (I know that this is used as a selling point by salesman).
    I admit to being quite a fan of the good old stick welder, to be honest they are very hard to beat as far as bang for buck goes and the welds produced by stick are generally free of defects such as cold lap which can affect migs when not set up and used correctly.
    I have never been a great fan of self shielded flux core wire as it did nothing for me that I could not achieve with either a stick welder or gas shielded mig, (to be fair self shielded wires have improved somewhat, but are still an expensive way of depositing metal compared to gas shielded wire if you do a fair bit of welding).
    If it were me I would be choosing either a straight mig that would take 15kg rolls of wire or a good stick welder, probably a DC inverter.

  3. #3
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    In a sense though, the 175i covers the DC inverter for stick and you have MIG as well. I have no idea if the 175i is a good machine or not, but I have the equivalent machine made by UniMIG and it's been great for both stick and MIG, and as I've said elsewhere in this forum, I started with flux core MIG and was very pleased with the results, and have recently converted to CO2 shielding gas with even better results. Thus the one multi-function machine really has fullfilled its multi-function promise, and it hasn't broken. Yet.

  4. #4
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    25% duty cycle at 175A or 15% at 190A.... My two cents worth is that youre going to spend a lot of time drinking coffee waiting for the machine to cool down.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    25% duty cycle at 175A or 15% at 190A.... My two cents worth is that youre going to spend a lot of time drinking coffee waiting for the machine to cool down.
    That is only if you are welding at max amps.
    I ran a class this week where the student brought in her newly purchased
    175 I and we used the stick and the fluxcore processes. Even with 3.2the machine never was set beyond 115 amps.

    If you want to run 170 continual amps buy a 270 amp machine or better..

    The machine comes fully equipped with a Tweco style gun and a full set of drive rolls,hand piece and earth return cables.I think there was a regulator-but will confirm that later if any body is that interested

    The stick process that was controlled with VRD was a complete PITA to strike but the welding , using both 2.6 and 3.2 electrodes is very good once the basics are there .

    There's a on/off indicator for the VRD but will have to read the instruction book to see if the bastard can be turned off!. The instruction book by the way is very comprehensive.

    Its a great light fabrication machine and not really hard hard to get tuned. The lady had it sorted after six or so hours of tuition.

    The wire spool carries only 5Kgs and so far we have used the fluxcore for practice and found that the voltage setting to get it tuned in happens in a window of only a volt or so.

    My student had no problems after we sorted some vision problems with a diopter fitted to her Techman auto helmet.

    Digital readouts are there but very sensitive to the touch to move for just a few volts adjustments. There is arc force adjustment which we just set in the middle range for now.

    I took some pics but will have phaff around to load them here as its the school camera and I don't have the software to see them on this computer as yet.

    Today as her project she built a welding trolley with casters for the unit to bring up to a convenient height.
    We are doing another Sunday class in a few weeks so I will take the other camera if I don't get today's pics up.

    Grahame

  6. #6
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    Exactly as Graham said, that is at maximum amperage.
    I doubt very greatly if any home user will cause an overheat condition with these machines.
    40% is about the greatest duty cycle that most people will achieve, perhaps 60% on a great day.
    Actually in my whole trade career I can recall only one welder that ever cut out from exceeding the duty cycle, (that was a cheap ac stick welder without a fan).
    Either machine will meet your requirements.

  7. #7
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    I am writing this a second time as I forgot and pressed the x in the corner and lost the lot.
    Any way here's the pics of the 175I controls and the custom made trolley built by the lady that owns the welder.

    She 's had only 15 hours of tuition and made the stand on Sunday. The machine ran the 2.6 mm sticks at 86 to a 100 amps, depending on position and wall thickness of the material which in the main was 3mm with the thinner box at 2.4mm.

    Shown below is the control panel and the and trolley.I set it up on a lay out after cutting the components on the cold saw to minimise any gaps.

    The lady tacked and welded the majority of the frame.
    A very happy student and a nice bit of fabbing with this machine.

    Thumbs up
    Grahame

  8. #8
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    Thanks to all,
    It's interesting to hear that stick isn't the best on these combo machines. Can anyone advise if there are any difference between the inverter migs and the older style transformer ones. Also, I was just reading the specs on the cig200, and it only has 8 power settings- so doesn't seem like much fine tuning on the bigger unit; whereas inverter based ones are stepless.

    Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty500 View Post
    It's interesting to hear that stick isn't the best on these combo machines.
    Not sure where you got that idea from. I have an inverter combo machine and an inverter stick. As I've posted in another thread, they actually handle the current control differently, but both are great to stick weld with - the main difference being you can't sling the combo machine over your shoulder and climb a ladder

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty500 View Post
    Thanks to all,
    It's interesting to hear that stick isn't the best on these combo machines. Can anyone advise if there are any difference between the inverter migs and the older style transformer ones. Also, I was just reading the specs on the cig200, and it only has 8 power settings- so doesn't seem like much fine tuning on the bigger unit; whereas inverter based ones are stepless.

    Cheers.
    I personally have no issue with their stick welding qualities, I suspect that you may be referring to the VRD (Voltage Reduction Device) comments. Any DC stick welding power source will probably be the sweetest welder you have ever used, they will even hold an arc with a piece of fencing wire!
    The VRD has been an area of fatal failure on many machines that I am aware of, not just the combo's, many DC inverters have this feature, which is great if you are working in tanks of other confined spaces, which is what the original concept was I understand.
    As to the perceived inferiority of the 8 position switch versus the stepless voltage control, I would not lose any sleep over that whatsoever.
    Most large industrial migs still use the stepped voltage controls and in reality you will have plenty of adjustment. I have used both extensively and see them as equal, but different.
    Every welding equipment supplier that I know of will demonstrate the unit before you buy, so try both.

  11. #11
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    Grahame, would you swap the kemppi for the cig 175i and how does it compare?

  12. #12
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    Yes, with little hesitation at all, even with the PITA VRD.

    The unit has the look and feel about it of a rebadged Miller.

    I would check with the spares situation with availability re circuit boarding the unit if it goes poof, but with a 3 year warranty the manufacturer must be confidant..

    The Kemppi is ok but the ruggedness is not here in the hand piece / torch or the wire drive and spool unit.The yanks have a word-cheesy- There are too many accessories if you want to call them that,t to me, pull down the quality from being really fair dinkum.

    The only thing that saves it is the screen and auto set function which must be handy for those new to mig welding.

    If any body wants it I'll swap it no worries.
    Grahame

  13. #13
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    Grahame you could up grade to this one. KemppiJoyOfWelding's Channel - YouTube

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobre View Post
    Grahame you could up grade to this one. KemppiJoyOfWelding's Channel - YouTube
    Not impressed, No joy for me at all. Kemppi had a great opportunity to fix the obvious problems and failed to do so.

    1. Same crap -different amp out put and otherwise no obvious attempt to improve anything else.
    2. The same crappy wire drive - you need small fingers and a big heart to change a liner. If you like annoying and fiddly you will just love it.
    3. Other machines costing far less are equipped with a spool axle that has a real bearing.Not Kemppi,the spool scapes inside of the case at times.
    4. Its hard to tell but the hand piece still looks unchanged like it came via the Lego factory.It would not have been real hard to fit it with a euro fitting and decent torch equivalent to a Tweco No2

    5. I don't use the screen as it's a PITA to read as it's on an angle.The angle it is on makes it catch light and reflect it back, making the numbers hard to see.


    Don't use mine often, 95 % of my welding I do with the Fronios anyway.

    Its very disappointing for such an expensive product as other products like the Kemppi Mastertig are a class act.

    Kemppi have phaffed around achieving the same poncy shape as the stick welder and have placed style over function.

    I emailed my comments to Kemppi after a period of ownership and never had the courtesy of a reply.

    Don't know the dollars but suspect well over $2k. As the screen is the feature people will buy it for, it alone is not worth the money. Buy the 175 and spend the difference of a welding course.

    Grahame

  15. #15
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    Grahame, what price would you put on the kemppi?

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