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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Default Welders - Difference Between?

    OK I've been looking in the Herless cataldog at welders as I quite fancy giving this a go, after finding a short course somewhere. When I got there I found Arc, Spot, Mig - Gas, Mig - Gasless and Tig.

    Can you guys give me some clues what these different welders are used for, I'm thinking an Arc welder for starters and general playing around. Advice on best gloves, masks, benches and vices gladly received also.

    HH.
    Always look on the bright side...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    SOUTH AUSTRALIA
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    Wink

    Welding guide

    Arc Welder use a a transformer to produce a variable current and use a welding rod to create a weld the flux around the welding rod is used to remove oxygen from the weldig area but this becomes slag after thwe weld has been done and needs to be removed, Arc welding requires a bit of patience and practice can be used for steel,stainless steel,cast iron just requires different rod for each job

    Mig welding is far the easiest to learn in a mig welding the gas removes the oxygen from welding area this is done by using migsheild or by a flux core in the welding wire Mig welders by feed welding wre from a roll down welding lead to a gun. Mig can be used for steel ,stainless steel,cast iron, aliminium but if you weld steel and aliminium you need to change the core in welding lead between types as aliminium wire builds up inside core as it is softer an rubes of and if dont change it comes out on your steel wire anc stuyffes up your weld. Advantage of Mig over Arc is better weld can be produced by anameteur because you dont have the risk of slag inclusion into weld but Mig is limited unless you buy a big three phase unit to the thickness of material you can weld

    Tig Welders require a lot more skill machines are expensive good for stainless steel, aluminium, and a limited to material thickness Tig welders are an electric type of oxy welder but are more versitial

    Spot welders are used for sheet metal so are limited in there use

    Gloves best ones are long leather ones that are lined are blue or black in colour unlike lplain leather gloves they dont go hard.Welding helmet if you can afford one LCD that are self darken are the go make life so much easier. Good vice steel or cast irn will be fine Bench steel top one is fine you can just grind spatter just make the top at least 10 mm thick
    Constant Sinking Feeling

  3. #3
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    Garvoc VIC AUSTRALIA
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    Default

    For occaisional use an Arc welder is the most cost effective.
    SHOCK HORROR - I have a GMC arc welder from Supercheap works quite well.
    I thoroughly recommend an AUTOMATIC welding Helmet - much easier and safer than normal welding helmets. Mine cost the same as the welder cost ($99 each on special)
    Regards, Bob Thomas

    www.wombatsawmill.com

  4. #4
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    Jun 2004
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    Perth WA
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    Default

    Excellent advice from Stephen. Just a note, Mig is easier for a mug but as stated, in home handyman models is limited in its capacity. Mig is also badly affected by wind. Look at the cost of consumables before making a purchase.

    A mig when changed from steel to Aluminium will require a liner and tip change in the gun to prevent contamination. It may also require a roller change.

    Old arc welders can be picked up for next to nothing 2nd hand.

    Cheers
    Last edited by vsquizz; 4th Jan 2005 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Self Nazi-ing
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  5. #5
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    Default

    Thanks a lot guys this is what I was after.

    Squizz, I read about having to change wire, rollers, tips and gas depending on the metal you're welding which sounds a bit fiddly for a beginner.

    Say I wanted to make a gate and weld some solid 10mm-15mm steel rod would the arc welder do the job?

    On the mask I read a recommendation for an "electronic welding mask" any idea what this is?

    HH.
    Always look on the bright side...

  6. #6
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    Default

    I'd go the arc welder. You can even make your own with an old alternator. MIG is the only way to fly if you're going to do a lot of it but for mucking around, cheap entry, and minimal supplies, you can't beat the arc welder.

    BTW there are health problems associated with welding. I can't say for sure but my mate who is a MIG welder by trade reckons his lungs have been stuffed by the gas.

    Yes you can make a gate with an arc welder but why don't you build a forge and make a wrought iron one

    I think the electronic masks adjust the level of light filtering electronically so you don't have to lift them up all the time to see what you're doing when not welding. I could be wrong. But I don't think so....
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  7. #7
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    Default

    The automatic masks are like wearing sunglasses while you are messing around but darken instantly on the start of the arc when you start welding. No more flashes or blindness or sore eyes.
    Regards, Bob Thomas

    www.wombatsawmill.com

  8. #8
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    Default

    A bit like Zaphod Beeblebox's 'Peril Sensitive' sunglasses...
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silentC
    Yes you can make a gate with an arc welder but why don't you build a forge and make a wrought iron one
    You read my mind:eek: first make the forge then pummel and twist some wrought iron and a bit of welding to pull it all together.

    HH.
    Always look on the bright side...

  10. #10
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    Apr 2003
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    Mildura, Victoria
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    Default

    An arc welder is all you need for starters. I've had Oxy, mig and arc (also called 'stick' welding) gear. The arc does all I need these days. Arc is basic and a good learning tool.
    WARNING about inexpensive 'auto' masks. Some cheap ones have been known to be 'slow'. That is, they didn't darken fast enough. IMHO I wouldn't buy one that didn't have a brand name - at least you would know who to sue when you went blind. Seriously though the fault can be hard to pick and not until you wake up with your eyes full of sand (that is the sensation you get when you have caught too many flashes) do you know you have a defective mask. It's your eyes that we are talking about and they are certainly worth more than $100 or so.
    Cheers
    GeoffS
    my web page - http://users.ncable.com.au/gsyme/woodwork/

  11. #11
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    Default

    A good note about the auto masks above. When I last tried them I had the old sand in the eyes affect for a day or two after but I'm sure they are getting better. I pay the $12.00 instead of the $2.50 and get the gold lense in No 11 for GP stuff and No 13 when I'm doing low hydrogen pipeline stuff. Lenses are numbered between (I think) 6 and 15 for welders. No 6 is about oxy goggles and number 15 is so dark I can't see jack. I like my old fashioned CIG helmet.

    For tacking up stuff like gates mig or stick will do but invest in some cheap magnetic welding clamps (which are definetly NOT Cramps). These are great especially when your learning.

    Most welding machine repair shops have a rack full of 2nd hand welders for sale and a semi-professional machine (migs) can often be picked up for half the cost of a new machine. Beware some of the cheap imported migs, they use non-standard gear and you can't get basic parts readily or at reasonable cost.

    Teach the family to avoid looking at the arc and yes, the fumes are not so good for you although a bit of welding around home is not likely to hurt. When I was doing a lot of boiler work they used to chest X-ray us every 6 months. I asked the Doc oneday wether the rads or welding fumes was gunna kill me first, he reckoned it would be a close run thing. They stopped doing the X-rays shortly after. I took up smoking out of spite

    Go the stick

    Cheers
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  12. #12
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    Default Why not oxy?

    I have a small oxy-acetylene Colt 22 from (used to be) CIG. Not much good for big stuff unless you braze, but easier to use for tube sections & sheet metal up to about 1/4", great for bending steel bars, cutting steel plate, loosening rusted bolts. BOC charge too much for cylinder hire, but I still wouldn't be without it, even if I only use it a couple of times a year. Very useful when making jigs and brackets where an arc welder would just blow a big hole in things.
    Cheers,
    Graeme

  13. #13
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    Default

    I have a CIG easy arc welder, electrically adjusted choke, 150 amps, excellent for general work ( read handyman). I once hired a MIG unit with "coated wire" it was a pita. smoked like stick welding, and I used three of the mini spools!! bleeding expensive :mad: So avoid gasless MIG if you can.
    The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
    Albert Einstein

  14. #14
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    Default

    The masks are a variation on a liquid crystal display, press a button on your calculator and a number or line appears.
    The line is invisible and activated by an application of voltage, it is also polarised so is effective in one direction only (try to read a display using polarised glasses).
    There is a sensing unit in the vicinity of the visor and once a flash is detected the liquid crystal is activated thus darkening the visor.
    As the signal to the screen travels at the speed of light theoretically you should not see the full flash.
    Two screens in opposing alignment will create a more effective block.
    Try rotating two pairs of polarised glasses in front of each other and see the effect, from no reduction in light to total blockout, this effect is also used for 3D movies with the glasses you wear being horizontally polarised with left and right lenses being aligned in opposite directions, normal sunnies are vertically polarised with a slight offset for northern or southern hemisphere (the good ones anyway).
    If blinded on startup, change batteries, if you can see where they go
    Stupidity kills. Absolute stupidity kills absolutely.

  15. #15
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    Default

    At work I have MIG, TIG and ARC welders. We use tig for mainly thin sheet and non-ferrous (stainless, aluminium etc) Mig for sheet steel and arc for every thing else. IMHO you cannot beat an ARC welder for home use. No hire on bottles, can take it anywhere and some of the smaller units you can do small onsite repairs without needing large power.
    In regards to safety, as I am sure has been said many times in this forum, do not skimp on money. Spend Everything you can and buy the best, As GeoffS said, "It's your eyes that we are talking about and they are certainly worth more than $100 or so."
    Have a nice day - Cheers

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